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Post by mwardncsu on Feb 14, 2016 19:33:32 GMT -5
What cause the die off of the threadfins and when did it occur? Was it the Copepods and the same time as the Striped Bass die off? 2003? Can and has it been any restocking of threadfins in SML? Gofish - cold winters killed off the threadfin. SML is really on the edge of being able to support them in winters. They show back up in small numbers every now and again - likely due to dumped tanks of bait from folks bringing bait with them to SML - or other nature means (rub off, birds dropping them, etc - though I doubt that brings many ) On Bait - I don't know if it's an issue of quantity, quality - or just location of the bait (vs location of the fish - or.... Perhaps the fish are where the bait are - and alewife hold on average, much deeper). I'm convinced that plays a part in the lack of surface breaking a of past days. Numbers of fish and increases boat traffic likely also play a part. On the question of genetics - based on discussion with DGIF over a number of years but groups inside and outside the Striper Club, this year our fish were stocked using a Bay resident strain, vs fish shocked up from the Roanoke above Kerr - current plan is to alternate every other year and monitor growth. Have questions on all this? We all do - Come ask Dan Wilson yourself at the Striper Club mtg on March 4th.
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Post by tommyfishes on Feb 14, 2016 19:55:48 GMT -5
What cause the die off of the threadfins and when did it occur? Was it the Copepods and the same time as the Striped Bass die off? 2003? Can and has it been any restocking of threadfins in SML? Gofish - cold winters killed off the threadfin. SML is really on the edge of being able to support them in winters. They show back up in small numbers every now and again - likely due to dumped tanks of bait from folks bringing bait with them to SML - or other nature means (rub off, birds dropping them, etc - though I doubt that brings many ) On Bait - I don't know if it's an issue of quantity, quality - or just location of the bait (vs location of the fish - or.... Perhaps the fish are where the bait are - and alewife hold on average, much deeper). I'm convinced that plays a part in the lack of surface breaking a of past days. Numbers of fish and increases boat traffic likely also play a part. On the question of genetics - based on discussion with DGIF over a number of years but groups inside and outside the Striper Club, this year our fish were stocked using a Bay resident strain, vs fish shocked up from the Roanoke above Kerr - current plan is to alternate every other year and monitor growth. Have questions on all this? We all do - Come ask Dan Wilson yourself at the Striper Club mtg on March 4th. I'm sure there is a few of you guys that remember how much bait we had back in the day. When I fished in the 70's there was so much bait at night it was really unbelievable! The lake was alive at night.......you had no trouble in the spring night bite finding shad working. Oh how i wish i could turn back time!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2016 22:27:52 GMT -5
Yep Tommy I was around in the good old days..... I'm sure you remember during the cold winters the threadfin die offs..... every creek had what looked like 1000's upon 1000's of dead threads floating everywhere. The creeks were full of fish during this time.... easy meal. You could take a bucktail and wear them out. The threadfins stayed up shallower in the water column thus we had acres and acres of breaking fish. A truly breathtaking sight to see. Staying up shallower in the winter was there undoing however. Unless we had 2 or 3 really cold winter in a row, seemed like they always came back pretty strong though. (I'm thinking BentRod must have poisoned them to get rid of them) .....Those were truly the good old days.... tons of bait and big fish thru-out the lake. Fish in the 20's didn't get a second look and a 30lber barely raised an eyebrow.
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Post by quackquackboom on Feb 15, 2016 11:42:09 GMT -5
This may be unknown but is it possible that the alewife and shad population can grow to match the previous threadfin population? Or is it being held back by nutrient levels/reproduction rates?
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BentRod
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Post by BentRod on Feb 15, 2016 12:37:09 GMT -5
The gizzards and alewives make up for the lack of threads - prolly the gizzards make up the difference mostly and can do so in one spawn. The threads are still around in low numbers. They haven't been able to make a comeback bc of low winter water temps the past 5-6yrs. They're a good bait and a bad bait for SML - they're an excellent source of forage and can make the fishing great 9mo out of the year, but they also break the fishery's back when they overpopulate and then die off in huge numbers in the winter - they're one of the main reasons for the fish kill, probably the main reason outside of the Copepods.
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Post by quackquackboom on Feb 15, 2016 12:53:34 GMT -5
Ok I guess my thought behind the question was this - if the bait levels are relatively the same then if all things are equal that shouldn't affect fish size correct? I know that's a big IF. I'm really new to this fishery and never saw the threadfins but I know I have seen unbelievable amounts of small bait on my fish finder. Bait from 20 to 30 feet deep for 20 acres. I can't even imagine how many it was. I know this is a circular conversation that has been had many times. I was just curious about that aspect.
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BentRod
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Post by BentRod on Feb 15, 2016 13:26:06 GMT -5
Well the bait is something like 20% of what it was in the old days bc of the treatment plant upriver. But the forage levels have been that way since the mid 80s so...
One thing Dan claims, which makes sense somewhat is that our fish feed all fall (when bait is more than plentiful) through winter and by late spring have depleted the forage levels significantly until early fall when the new hatches are a consumable size. So his point was that our fish are starving through the spawn/summer and that could slow growth.
I have no idea about the growth issue anymore - it doesn't make good sense to me - nothing adds up.
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