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Post by 2 oars & a trash can on Dec 17, 2012 4:52:25 GMT -5
Why does anyone want to have an AK-47 type weapon in their home?
This is not a hunting rifle. (correct me if that is inaccurate)
Is it that if the gov't starts limiting weapons, they may just keep going until all guns are banned?
But there has to be some limit, right? I mean no one is allowed to own a bazooka, are they? So the laws have got to be involved somewhere.
I'm not trying to say that banning these weapons is going to prevent a whole lot of crimes. I just don't understand the reason for wanting to own them.
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Post by striperjohn on Dec 17, 2012 6:30:54 GMT -5
Where do I start? AK47s are already banned is this country, so what is your point? You see a true AK47 is a fully automatic rifle, I used many of them in Vietnam and a few other places in the world. What you are after is the liberal viewpoint that AK47 "type" weapons should be banned. The only legal weapons of an AK47 "type" in this country are also illegal in this country. The fully automatic "types". Which once again is an AK47 or an AK47 variant. Yes people do own fully automatic weapons in this country, but they must be licensed, registered and approval given before purchase. Why would people want to own them, you see Afloat that was the intent of the Founders, you may want to own one because you can. Or simply because it is your choice. Not the governments! So again I say what is your point?
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Post by 2 oars & a trash can on Dec 17, 2012 7:16:10 GMT -5
I don't have a point striperjohn, I have a question.
My question is not whether certain weapons ought to be banned, but why anyone would want one.
Please start a new post if you wish to discuss a different topic.
It's hard to tell but you may be saying that people want them because the founders said they can want them?
If I was trying to "get after a liberal viewpoint", as you stated, I would not look for it here.
AK-47's are made in a legal, semi-automatic version and sold legally in the US. Check your facts
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Post by mwardncsu on Dec 17, 2012 7:51:27 GMT -5
This has the potential to be a flash point topic, so let's all keep a discussion without accusations or assumptions on anyone's intent. If so then there can be an open and honest dialog. I think the question poised by Afloat is one many may be asking after Friday's events and I think anyone can understand why such questions would be raised.
No reason not to respond with your feelings and beliefs to the question - it was posed and hopefully as an attempt to truly want to better understand the issues. Open dialog is always a good thing - let's just respect the fact that folks see things different ways and there are opinions - and we learn from each other.
As long as this can be a dialogue then we'll leave this open - let's not have to drag SS out of retirement to edit or lock the thread ;D
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Brian
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Post by Brian on Dec 17, 2012 8:12:48 GMT -5
asleepaflot, you are the one who has his facts wrong.
An AK-47 is a fully automatic machinegun period. Gun-grabbers screech "AK-47" because it scares you and you always see bad guys using them in movies.
There are plenty of semi-automatics that superficially look like an AK-47. There are also semi-automatics that look exactly like grand-pa's deer rifle, but you don't see gun-grabbing scum waving those around even though they function exactly like a semi-auto dressed up to look like an AK-47.
So, if you don't have an agenda, why the fixation on "AK-47"?
Also, why the fixation on guns? Would you be happier if mentally ill people used pipe bombs? Or maybe if someone chained the doors to a school and set it on fire? Do we ban gasoline, pipes and fertilizer? How about kitchen knives?
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Brian
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Post by Brian on Dec 17, 2012 8:15:27 GMT -5
I was composing and deleting and composing again while you posted, Mike.
Just lock it.. The very question is offensive because the answer to "why own guns" is that it is a free country and the 2nd Amendment's purpose is to keep it that way. It disgusts me to see Schumer and gang dancing in the blood of children to advance their political agenda.
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Post by 2 oars & a trash can on Dec 17, 2012 8:35:52 GMT -5
My agenda, sir, is to understand why people want to own semi-automatic weapons.
When I search the news sites, I find all sorts of posts and articles about banning them.
Someone once said that in order to ask a question, one must already be a large percentage of the way to knowing the answer.
So my guesses are:
1) Collectors like to have a wide variety of whatever they collect just as a hobby 2) If someone attacks my house and they have one, I better have one also 3) Target practice is fun and it is more fun with a semi-automatic weapon 4) ? are there other reasons ?
So those are my guesses but I am only guessing because none of those apply to me. I hoped to hear from someone who actually held a reason rather than listen to my own guesses. That is the sole reason I asked.
Delete the thread if you deem that best.
It sure would be nice to have a civil conversation though, among folks who already know they probably don't agree on some of the relevant issues.
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Post by mrgreenfish on Dec 17, 2012 8:37:47 GMT -5
Getting rid of guns is out of the question because there are too many out there & law abiding citizens need them for protection. However, there are many laws that need to be rewrote. You should not be able to give a gun as a gift. If you own or use a gun, it should be registered to you. Law abiding citizens have nothing to hide. To hunt you have to take a safety course, to own a gun, you have to be of age & have a clean record. Oh yeah, or just have your mom buy it for you. Our "founders" weren't qualified to make decisions for todays world. Where do you start striperjohn? DON'T
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Post by 2 oars & a trash can on Dec 17, 2012 8:58:57 GMT -5
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Post by bigjon on Dec 17, 2012 9:25:21 GMT -5
I am not the paranoid type but I do not live in a fairy tale world either. I look around and I see this world in some troubled times. There are countries and groups out there that would love nothing more than to see America fall. They have already made it clear that they have the guts to come to our soil and do any and all damage they can. They have no regard for our lives or that of our families.
If I were on a team and thought that one day we may make the finals I would want to work hard to prepare myself to be the best that I could be to help the team. I would buy the best equipment I could get if I thought it might give me the edge to win the game. I would not go to Wal Mart and buy a wiffle ball bat to take to the World Series.
This is not a game but at the same time I consider America a team regardless of our differences and if anyone brings the “game” to us I intend to be prepared. If we never make the big game (which I pray we never do) I still have some fine hunting rifles. I believe that having a well armed population is one thing that helps keep our enemies from bringing a full war on our soil. So far the attacks on us have been in a cowardly manner by use of explosives, planes etc…. If any of them ever did attempt to bring an eye to eye, face to face war on US soil I can guarantee they will not show up with single shot small game rifles. We take God out of schools, we take the ten commandments down, we issue less discipline to keep from hurting someone’s self esteem, we don’t spend time with our kids and instead buy them games where it’s cool to shoot cops and run over innocent people. When a child acts up we run them to a doctor who in turn sticks them on some medicine. We teach them that they are not responsible for their action’s and blame anything we can think of to keep from admitting where the blame really lies. The family supper tables where issues are shared and discussed are a thing of the past. Backyard kickball games, bon fires, family nights, fishing trips, hunting trips, building forts in the woods and the like have been replaced with dropping our kids off at the mall or at someone’s home we barely know just so we can have some “me” time.
When will we take responsibility for the fact that we are the cause of a lot of the “mental health” issues in our children today and address how to fix that rather than blaming everything we can think of and just trying to come up with laws that may or may not slow down the consequences of our irresponsibility but will definitely not fix the problem? We have a problem in this country for sure and a serious one but it’s not the capacity of the magazines in my firearms.
Owning firearms to me is more than just for hunting but also to protect my family, my neighbors, my county, my state and my country and I feel more comfortable doing that when my choice of defense matches or exceeds what I may encounter.
"The ammunition has enough knockdown power to killed deer, bears and large wild boar and has become a popular hunting weapons"
That answeres one question right from the link posted.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2012 9:28:50 GMT -5
To think that violent criminals, or mentally unstable people will respect ANY law you pass in regard to restricting acess to guns is utterly naive and foolish. Take away our guns and we will be a few hairs away from becoming a military state. I heard a reporter say yesterday that this problem was unique to the United States......well, so are many of the freedoms that are unique to this great country. Why do so many state thieir opinion as fact. This tragedy has shook me to the core, and made me stronger in my beliefs. The only way to fix this mess is...... 1) Stop taking God out of everything. You may not believe but no one can argue the moral lesson taught. 2) Give schools the power to discipline back. Guess what.....your kid does .... up, and since you are a friend instead of a parent, we will beat some sense into the little bastard.....Gripe all you want to the school board.....but instead of putting our teachers under the microscope....we are going to put your parental skills under it. 3) Have kids because you want to raise them and mold them into something you could never be. I deleted 4 and 5. out of respect to afloat....
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Post by leo24551 on Dec 17, 2012 9:35:21 GMT -5
Two points:
#1, any weapon I own is a self defense weapon, not an assault weapon.
#2, this one time I'm proud to call Bigjon my brother and agree with him whole-heartily.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2012 9:36:07 GMT -5
Sorry bigjon, our post kinda overlaped. I was typing the same time you were.
I agree with everthing you said.
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BentRod
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Post by BentRod on Dec 17, 2012 9:39:40 GMT -5
I am not the paranoid type but I do not live in a fairy tale world either. I look around and I see this world in some troubled times. There are countries and groups out there that would love nothing more than to see America fall. They have already made it clear that they have the guts to come to our soil and do any and all damage they can. They have no regard for our lives or that of our families. If I were on a team and thought that one day we may make the finals I would want to work hard to prepare myself to be the best that I could be to help the team. I would buy the best equipment I could get if I thought it might give me the edge to win the game. I would not go to Wal Mart and buy a wiffle ball bat to take to the World Series. This is not a game but at the same time I consider America a team regardless of our differences and if anyone brings the “game” to us I intend to be prepared. If we never make the big game (which I pray we never do) I still have some fine hunting rifles. I believe that having a well armed population is one thing that helps keep our enemies from bringing a full war on our soil. So far the attacks on us have been in a cowardly manner by use of explosives, planes etc…. If any of them ever did attempt to bring an eye to eye, face to face war on US soil I can guarantee they will not show up with single shot small game rifles. We take God out of schools, we take the ten commandments down, we issue less discipline to keep from hurting someone’s self esteem, we don’t spend time with our kids and instead buy them games where it’s cool to shoot cops and run over innocent people. When a child acts up we run them to a doctor who in turn sticks them on some medicine. We teach them that they are not responsible for their action’s and blame anything we can think of to keep from admitting where the blame really lies. The family supper tables where issues are shared and discussed are a thing of the past. Backyard kickball games, bon fires, family nights, fishing trips, hunting trips, building forts in the woods and the like have been replaced with dropping our kids off at the mall or at someone’s home we barely know just so we can have some “me” time. When will we take responsibility for the fact that we are the cause of a lot of the “mental health” issues in our children today and address how to fix that rather than blaming everything we can think of and just trying to come up with laws that may or may not slow down the consequences of our irresponsibility but will definitely not fix the problem? We have a problem in this country for sure and a serious one but it’s not the capacity of the magazines in my firearms. Owning firearms to me is more than just for hunting but also to protect my family, my neighbors, my county, my state and my country and I feel more comfortable doing that when my choice of defense matches or exceeds what I may encounter. "The ammunition has enough knockdown power to killed deer, bears and large wild boar and has become a popular hunting weapons" That answeres one question right from the link posted. Amen!
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lund1
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Post by lund1 on Dec 17, 2012 10:55:47 GMT -5
I'm glad to see this thread has become a thoughtful discussion of what, how and why...instead of the knee-jerk, reactionary name calling that immediately followed the initial question.
The question "why would anyone want an assualt rifle?"...is a perfectly legitimate one and worthy of mature, knowleadgeable answers....glad to see we finally heard a few.
I have owned firearms my entire life....grew up with a .22 as my summer companion....have made a point of educationg all my kids...and any of their friends that are interested...in gun awareness, safety. Guns have been a part of our culture from the beginning, and should, I believe, remain so.....the reasons why have been well stated above.
Much, much scarier then "scary guns" is the loss of our children. I have raised 4 kids and coached hundreds over the years....i'm no expert, but I think i know a little about kids...especially young men...and I am rocked to the very core by the utter despair that young man must have been living in....whatever mental health support we can start, whatever mentoring program we can offer to kids that are lost, whatever positive intervention we have the courage to initiate (regardless of the possible consequences if we're wrong)...whatever we as caring members of our society can do to protect another kid ( yes, I think he's a kid) from whatever demons he created and gave in to....we need to start doing it today....the hell with trying to control the guns....that boy could just as easily have poured gas all around the building and lit it on fire.....we need to recognize that kids need help managing through this whacked out world we've been a part of creating.
Here's a challenge......spend a day thinking about what each one of you can do to make a difference in the lives of kids...it may be as simple as looking squarely in the eyes of the weird, tatooed kid working at the convenience store and asking him how he is?, what's he doing?, how's his world looking today?...something...anything...that will make a kid realize there is someone solid, reliable... and interested in who he is....or take it a lot further and actually get involved in something...I don't need to list the things you can do...but check your prejudices and judgements at the door and connect with a few kids...it may seem like a bunch of "feel good BS"...it's not...if every guy on this website committed to trying to do SOMETHING to connect with a kid, we would lessen the chance of this happening in our part of the world dramatically.....that's the only answer to stop this insanity.
I don't post much...I usually limit my posts to how often I get skunked in Gills and the Blackwater ....sorry if I overspoke my mind here....
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