Post by wishforfish on Apr 18, 2013 21:00:26 GMT -5
...since we had a lively, senseless, down and dirty political debate. Since things have been slow (for me) and no fishing (hoping to change that soon) figured I would post this since I am a libertarian and no one can acuse me of being biased to either side even though it is really about guns...haha.
I have to admit that I admire the passion and emotion that liberals argue with, however misguided I think it is, and I truly feel for those that have lost loved ones in the mass shootings that have taken place but I am happy with the recent shutdown on gun control legislation. All of that being said, I think Wayne LaPierre is an idiot which is the only reason I am not a member of the NRA. Despite that I recognize that the NRA is the only special interest fighting for my rights with any appreciable impact.
I wish I could get legitimate statistics on a couple of items so I was truly dealing with fact-based unemotional data.
1. How many people if polled actually know what the 2nd amendment says, means (this is open to some interpretation) and the reason why it was created? And if they know why it was created do they perceive or recognize any threat in this day and age that would warrant its existence? If they do not see the need for the 2nd amendment, how many of those individuals rely on the government for subsistence in any way shape or form as it pertains to their living and functional expenses with the obvious exception of taxes. Just curious...
2. How many shootings, including and ESPECIALLY Newtown since it was the catalyst for all of this, relative to the contrary, have been carried out with a firearm that was illegally or improperly acquired due to the mental state or legal status of the shooter? Just my .02 but I think the responsibility in Newtown rested with the mother who intentionally or not provided access to weapons to her mentally ill son. Not PC since she is dead but the reality in my world.
3. Why doesn't the government prosecute the current gun laws already on the books and what are the real numbers? I am sure there is a high failure rate and cost due to the overwhelming amount of BS currently required to prosecute someone who has clearly violated a law and tried to purchase a firearm when they are prohibited from doing so. The total prosecuted seems to be about 2% but most (85%?) of those are possession by a felon (typically they are being arrested for something else and are in possession of a firearm at the time) and use in a violent or drug related crime (i.e. found some weed and a gun). So nothing is being done to enforce the current laws relating to trying to buy a gun and failing a background check knowing you are attempting to do so in violation of the law.
4. What percentage of americans own a gun? (88% according to a liberal examination and 1/3 (33%) for a recent conservative estimate) My guess is this is 88% of known guns based on poulation and guns per household on the other end. It doesn't matter but the reality is neither side knows. Their statistic is created to push their agenda and provide the typical "political legitimacy to whatever they are selling at that moment when the statistic was cited.
5. How many actually support the bill that was presented in its' entirety or just support the portion pertaining to background checks? 90% of all americans supported this bill shouts the president while the NRA claims it has the provisions that start/lead/create a national gun registry. They are both full of crap. What was in the bill in its complete form? Does anyone here know, proven by fact, without becoming biased or stating a rumor?
and aside from the numbers...
6. WILL someone please point me to the "GUN SHOW LOOPHOLE"? I am getting tired of filling out paper to buy guns. I have gone to many gun shows and have purchased at least 16 firearms at them and yet I have had to fill out paperwork and submit to background checks every single time. I understand that there are those 3-4 guys out front trying to sell a 1967 Mossberg 12ga for $200 and a couple of tables inside but most of those guys sell specialty stuff like cowboy style .45 long colts or Winchester levers, etc. I don't think I have ever run across someone specializing in selling black rifles or tactical firearms as a private dealer (not saying they don't exist but I have never stumbled upon them) in 25 years of going to gun shows.
7. The people trying to enact these measures should stop leading with impassioned emotion and become educated to a reasonable extent on what they are trying to accomplish. For example, I know that batteries contain harmful things and can be harmful to environment when disposed of. That is the extent of my knowledge of batteries from a negative perspective. Due to this lack of knowledge I am not trying to ban batteries. This now from a US Congress member and I swear I did not even search for this...
"Rep. Diana DeGette (D-Colo.) recently participated in a forum hosted by the Denver Post editorial board where she displayed a fine example of the ignorance regarding magazines. DeGette stated, "They’re bullets, so the people who have those now they’re going to shoot them, so if you ban them in the future, the number of these high capacity magazines is going to decrease dramatically over time because the bullets will have been shot and there won’t be any more available."
8. Even the private people I have purchased guns from always require a bill of sale to record the purchase, a copy of my DL or a permit (that is a NC thing). I maintain a bill of sale record on all firearms I sell to private parties with the exception of one, sold to friend I met here 9 years ago and know well.
I am very tired and what I have come to call "Politically Exhausted" with the past 15 years. I read a very good article today by a self described "vehement gun control advocate" and it was very good. I have tried to locate it to include it here and can't find it again which I regret because it was dead-on with the reality of the issues and all emotional, political posturing and theatrics put to the side, just common sense answers to the problems. I will continue to look and hopefully post it later to cause more disruption and discontent. ;D
The reality is that the government has itself to blame for the failure of the gun control it sought by being uninformed with relevant, correct, unbiased statistical data and I am glad it failed.
I have to admit that I admire the passion and emotion that liberals argue with, however misguided I think it is, and I truly feel for those that have lost loved ones in the mass shootings that have taken place but I am happy with the recent shutdown on gun control legislation. All of that being said, I think Wayne LaPierre is an idiot which is the only reason I am not a member of the NRA. Despite that I recognize that the NRA is the only special interest fighting for my rights with any appreciable impact.
I wish I could get legitimate statistics on a couple of items so I was truly dealing with fact-based unemotional data.
1. How many people if polled actually know what the 2nd amendment says, means (this is open to some interpretation) and the reason why it was created? And if they know why it was created do they perceive or recognize any threat in this day and age that would warrant its existence? If they do not see the need for the 2nd amendment, how many of those individuals rely on the government for subsistence in any way shape or form as it pertains to their living and functional expenses with the obvious exception of taxes. Just curious...
2. How many shootings, including and ESPECIALLY Newtown since it was the catalyst for all of this, relative to the contrary, have been carried out with a firearm that was illegally or improperly acquired due to the mental state or legal status of the shooter? Just my .02 but I think the responsibility in Newtown rested with the mother who intentionally or not provided access to weapons to her mentally ill son. Not PC since she is dead but the reality in my world.
3. Why doesn't the government prosecute the current gun laws already on the books and what are the real numbers? I am sure there is a high failure rate and cost due to the overwhelming amount of BS currently required to prosecute someone who has clearly violated a law and tried to purchase a firearm when they are prohibited from doing so. The total prosecuted seems to be about 2% but most (85%?) of those are possession by a felon (typically they are being arrested for something else and are in possession of a firearm at the time) and use in a violent or drug related crime (i.e. found some weed and a gun). So nothing is being done to enforce the current laws relating to trying to buy a gun and failing a background check knowing you are attempting to do so in violation of the law.
4. What percentage of americans own a gun? (88% according to a liberal examination and 1/3 (33%) for a recent conservative estimate) My guess is this is 88% of known guns based on poulation and guns per household on the other end. It doesn't matter but the reality is neither side knows. Their statistic is created to push their agenda and provide the typical "political legitimacy to whatever they are selling at that moment when the statistic was cited.
5. How many actually support the bill that was presented in its' entirety or just support the portion pertaining to background checks? 90% of all americans supported this bill shouts the president while the NRA claims it has the provisions that start/lead/create a national gun registry. They are both full of crap. What was in the bill in its complete form? Does anyone here know, proven by fact, without becoming biased or stating a rumor?
and aside from the numbers...
6. WILL someone please point me to the "GUN SHOW LOOPHOLE"? I am getting tired of filling out paper to buy guns. I have gone to many gun shows and have purchased at least 16 firearms at them and yet I have had to fill out paperwork and submit to background checks every single time. I understand that there are those 3-4 guys out front trying to sell a 1967 Mossberg 12ga for $200 and a couple of tables inside but most of those guys sell specialty stuff like cowboy style .45 long colts or Winchester levers, etc. I don't think I have ever run across someone specializing in selling black rifles or tactical firearms as a private dealer (not saying they don't exist but I have never stumbled upon them) in 25 years of going to gun shows.
7. The people trying to enact these measures should stop leading with impassioned emotion and become educated to a reasonable extent on what they are trying to accomplish. For example, I know that batteries contain harmful things and can be harmful to environment when disposed of. That is the extent of my knowledge of batteries from a negative perspective. Due to this lack of knowledge I am not trying to ban batteries. This now from a US Congress member and I swear I did not even search for this...
"Rep. Diana DeGette (D-Colo.) recently participated in a forum hosted by the Denver Post editorial board where she displayed a fine example of the ignorance regarding magazines. DeGette stated, "They’re bullets, so the people who have those now they’re going to shoot them, so if you ban them in the future, the number of these high capacity magazines is going to decrease dramatically over time because the bullets will have been shot and there won’t be any more available."
8. Even the private people I have purchased guns from always require a bill of sale to record the purchase, a copy of my DL or a permit (that is a NC thing). I maintain a bill of sale record on all firearms I sell to private parties with the exception of one, sold to friend I met here 9 years ago and know well.
I am very tired and what I have come to call "Politically Exhausted" with the past 15 years. I read a very good article today by a self described "vehement gun control advocate" and it was very good. I have tried to locate it to include it here and can't find it again which I regret because it was dead-on with the reality of the issues and all emotional, political posturing and theatrics put to the side, just common sense answers to the problems. I will continue to look and hopefully post it later to cause more disruption and discontent. ;D
The reality is that the government has itself to blame for the failure of the gun control it sought by being uninformed with relevant, correct, unbiased statistical data and I am glad it failed.