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Post by mytoyzfishing on Aug 11, 2013 12:54:22 GMT -5
All, From time to time a post pops up on keeping live bait alive in smaller live wells and built in tanks. I'm testing out a setup that might help alievate the problems that arise when using these style tanks. I know the normal responce is to go get a Super Bait Tank. I had one on my pontoon and are awsome bait tanks no doubt. But not everyone can either afford them or has the room for one. One of the reason's why I had put the bass boat asside and struggled with the pontoon boat. I was tired of the limitations of the pontoon and am determined to make the bass boat work without having to install an after market bait tank as I have no room for one. Ive been doing some research and talking to a couple of different people, companies, and organizations. Such as the owner of Keepalive, guides down on Lake Lanier, and the Atlanta Aquarium. And all have recomended trying using a pure O2 system. So I'm finishing up installing a pure O2 system into the bass boat to see how it handles keeping shad alive in these style tanks. From my research and talking with folks, this setup is nothing new and has been used for years by fisherman both in saltwater and freshwater down south in states such as Georgia and Texas. I'm traveling this week and hopeing to get out and test it out next weekend. I will post up pictures and my finding though. There are no local dealers or shops that sell this system and if it test's out the way I hope it will, hopefully I can change that  |
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Post by mwardncsu on Aug 11, 2013 13:01:37 GMT -5
Will be interesting to see how this works - i know a lot of GA/SC folks swear by the O2 and inject it into their SBT-II tanks How will you handle the filteration of the slime, scales, etc that come from a fresh load of gizzard shad? |
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Post by wishforfish on Aug 11, 2013 16:48:01 GMT -5
As many know I use my boats built in tanks for bait and they seem to work just fine. One, they are rounds without corners and two they are fairly large for built ins (26 and 31 if I remember correctly) but I usually only use the front smaller tank. I have 2 bait spas and they do a pretty good job but I have also experimented with a couple of things that have worked with varying degrees of success. I have a Pro Air system in both and recirc in both. So with the pro air system providing the O2 I need filtration and found that a "custom made" unit did a fairly good job at filtration when attached over my recirc screen. If I get a chance I'll post some pics of what I did but the bait spa really works well for me so I very seldom use my recirc/pro air system for what it is worth.
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Post by mytoyzfishing on Aug 11, 2013 19:48:11 GMT -5
Wish - If its the same pro air that I am thinking of its and aerator correct? The system I am trying out is not an aerator pump. Its a tank with compress pure O2, kind of like a miniature scuba tank that has pure air in it that is fed to a ceramic 3" air stone. Here's a picture of the basic setup before assembled. They make 3 size tanks. An 11", 15", and I think the biggest is 19". The 15" fits perfect in the compartment that adjoins the live well and will never see any type of petroleum based products such as oil and fuel. I am setup to transfer the compressed O2 from a 125cf tank in my garage to the smaller tanks.  Mward - I am slightly modifying my live well. Last time I ran used it I ran into problems with the divider between the two sides and scale's clogging the aerator screen's. So I pulled out the divider to make it one open live well. The screens are a 3/4" thread so I have used 2 3/4" threaded PVC fittings and a short piece of PVC to make a stand pipe with holes drilled in it and then used the same material used in my fish tank over flows and slip that over the PVC pipe to act as a prefilter material. This way if I need to filter the water I can. Yea after talking to everybody that I have, its big down south. One of the big Bass organizations down in TX even require it for their tournaments during the summer months. I will definably post up the results once I get to test it out next weekend. Along with pictures. |
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Post by wishforfish on Aug 11, 2013 21:57:16 GMT -5
Yes, the pro air is a pump... I would much prefer the system you are talking about but the pro air worked fairly well. The spa's do a better job and sometimes I'll run both but mostly just the spa. The other thing I forgot to point out is my wells on the boat are very well insulated. The biggest challenege I see in a bass boat (used to have one), if you figure out the filtration, is the shape. Let us know how it goes!
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BentRod
Global Moderator
Posts: 2,252
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Post by BentRod on Aug 11, 2013 22:19:56 GMT -5
Ammonia and high water temps are your bait killers. Aerators will help to outgas ammonia and CO2. I don't think O2 will do anything but saturate the water with as much O2 as it will hold. This will certainly help and I think it may work quite well on ales and a limited number of shad for short periods. You'll need filtration for a decent number of shad for extended periods. The colder the water, the more 02 it will hold and the better it will work I think. Be interesting to see the results.
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Post by maintenanceman4lif on Aug 12, 2013 8:18:05 GMT -5
I have tried it in the past and without filtration it was useless to me. Did work pretty good as for frisky bait with the filtration. But was expensive I felt for it. I did alot of testing and trials before I figured out what worked best for me was the filtration system and oxygen draw with a 1/8" line making a venturi at the pump impeller. Be interesting to see if maybe I was doing something wrong and you can accomplish it. Let us know.....
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Post by wishforfish on Aug 12, 2013 8:29:15 GMT -5
Agree on the temps/ammonia thing...I always use an ammonia tablet (for aquariums)
and have found it makes a big difference especially in the summer.
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piper
New Member
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Post by piper on Aug 13, 2013 20:22:37 GMT -5
I have tried it in the past and without filtration it was useless to me. Did work pretty good as for frisky bait with the filtration. But was expensive I felt for it. I did alot of testing and trials before I figured out what worked best for me was the filtration system and oxygen draw with a 1/8" line making a venturi at the pump impeller. Be interesting to see if maybe I was doing something wrong and you can accomplish it. Let us know..... Do you have pics of this? I attempted to installed one at the impeller and get nothing but water right now. I have since made one out of a T that works ok but looking for something a little better. |
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Post by mytoyzfishing on Aug 14, 2013 8:32:33 GMT -5
I have tried it in the past and without filtration it was useless to me. Did work pretty good as for frisky bait with the filtration. But was expensive I felt for it. I did alot of testing and trials before I figured out what worked best for me was the filtration system and oxygen draw with a 1/8" line making a venturi at the pump impeller. Be interesting to see if maybe I was doing something wrong and you can accomplish it. Let us know..... Yes but there is a big difference in Outside air draw using a venturi setup then pure O2. |
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Post by mytoyzfishing on Aug 14, 2013 8:36:10 GMT -5
I have tried it in the past and without filtration it was useless to me. Did work pretty good as for frisky bait with the filtration. But was expensive I felt for it. I did alot of testing and trials before I figured out what worked best for me was the filtration system and oxygen draw with a 1/8" line making a venturi at the pump impeller. Be interesting to see if maybe I was doing something wrong and you can accomplish it. Let us know..... Do you have pics of this? I attempted to installed one at the impeller and get nothing but water right now. I have since made one out of a T that works ok but looking for something a little better. Do you have it on the discharged or intake side? If on the intake side the opening of line you are using has to be pretty close to the impeller and at the center. |
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Post by mwardncsu on Aug 14, 2013 8:39:17 GMT -5
Yes but there is a big difference in Outside air draw using a venturi setup then pure O2. I think he's saying he used O2 injection at the venturi - right grasscutter? I know that is a common setup to get the O2 into the water column without the use of an airstone |
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Post by mwardncsu on Aug 14, 2013 8:59:59 GMT -5
Do you have it on the discharged or intake side? If on the intake side the opening of line you are using has to be pretty close to the impeller and at the center. That's how the Keepalive plates that go on the bottom of the Rule pumps that come on the SuperBait Tank II work - I don't like this type of setup as you are effectively forcing cavitation at the pump and I believe it causes premature failure of the pump. I much prefer venturi setups. Efficient venturi's work by forcing a volume of water through a choke point, which causes a pressure differential as the water goes through this, and that pressure differential creates a suction to pull air or other into the flow. Some aquarium power head pumps use a "tap" for a air hose on the output side of the pump - not as efficient as a true venturi that has a tapered reduction and expansion but work to a degree - likely due to the water flow being "choked" between the pump impeller cavity and then free output side of the pump/powerhead. And still better than causing the pump to cavitate in my opinion.... You'll see overall better effects of a venturi or any air injection system when the water has salt in it, as the salt changes the specific gravity of the water and allows much smaller bubbles to be formed. In freshwater your bubbles from the output side will be fairly large - once you get a proper amount of salt into the water they will become very small/fine - almost a mist/cloud. Ok - science lesson over for the day  I know we've said it a lot - but for those looking for a venturi setup, don't mess around with trying to rig something homemade or use those plates that inject into the impeller side of the pump - do yourself a favor and get a Dannco venturi - you won't regret it - they have several models for in-line (on the output side of the pump) and even a bulk-head model so you can retrofit an existing boat livewell. www.danncollc.com/venturi.htm |
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Post by maintenanceman4lif on Aug 14, 2013 11:00:11 GMT -5
I actually use a brass carb fitting I motified and have it installed under the center of the impeller. As it is used to pull the input air into it on the input side of the pump. Mounted thru the blue plate. Took a long time to achieve what I wanted but it works great. I have also used the oxygen with the regulator and injected oxygen in thru the same concept and really didn't have any luck with it in the past. Also tried in the past on the output side with an air line and with a small fitting venturi I made on the CNC at work to do this it worked but wasn't as effective as the fitting thru the draw side of the pump. It made large bubbles and think it effected the fish. So pulling thru the impeller breaks up the bubbles and makes a fine mist. Salt is also a big ticket to use with it too!
Mward I agree the Dannco pump is the ticket but I have had my setup going on 15 yrs now and love it still so haven't bought one. Never have burned up a rule pump either with the problem of cavitation from it but the dirt dobbers are bad to clog it up during off months in the shed.
Mward thanks for all the technical info on it all.
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Post by mytoyzfishing on Aug 15, 2013 6:01:26 GMT -5
I actually use a brass carb fitting I motified and have it installed under the center of the impeller. As it is used to pull the input air into it on the input side of the pump. Mounted thru the blue plate. Took a long time to achieve what I wanted but it works great. I have also used the oxygen with the regulator and injected oxygen in thru the same concept and really didn't have any luck with it in the past. Also tried in the past on the output side with an air line and with a small fitting venturi I made on the CNC at work to do this it worked but wasn't as effective as the fitting thru the draw side of the pump. It made large bubbles and think it effected the fish. So pulling thru the impeller breaks up the bubbles and makes a fine mist. Salt is also a big ticket to use with it too! Mward I agree the Dannco pump is the ticket but I have had my setup going on 15 yrs now and love it still so haven't bought one. Never have burned up a rule pump either with the problem of cavitation from it but the dirt dobbers are bad to clog it up during off months in the shed. Mward thanks for all the technical info on it all. When you were injecting the O2 directly into the pump what size bubbles were you getting? Im still toying around with it and learning the in's and out's of O2 for bait. From what I've researched and read O2 wont do any good unless its a fine mist looking set of bubbles. The larger bubbles not being able to dissipate effectively. One of the reason I went with the ceramic air stone and not a air stone designed for fish tanks. |
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