Hot fish

[2 oars & a trash can]

I'm not trying to open an old argument (feel free to delete this if you think it's starting a controversy) but the notion of warm water killing, or helping kill stripers is important.

So I have a story. I don't have a dog in this fight. I do care what affects the fish and how. This has happened twice now. Once could be a fluke and not worth mentioning.

I catch a fish and release it quick. I never net, always lip.
The fish acts hurt and doesn't swim away fast. I think, oh no, I have to keep it. I'll give it a push from the tail and try to get it going. The fish swims down but can't seem to stay down and pops back up a ways (10 - 15 ' ?) from the boat and floats. So I have to keep it but I have things to deal with in the boat before I can get over to it.
It takes a couple minutes.
I paddle or motor to the floating fish, reach out to grab it, and it flips.
I mean hard, lively, and dives down out of sight. Fast.
In both cases I stood up in the boat and looked all over to see it pop back up and it did not resurface in either case. I never travel far. I kept looking.
I can't harvest this injured striper that floated several minutes on the surface because I can't find the damn thing.

I know that one take is it just swam down below to die, but I have a hard time buying that by the way both of these fish got the heck away from me and the surface on their own.
One was about 3 weeks ago, the other several months ago.
Someone mentioned the idea of fish adapting to environments.

I saw a fishing tournament on TV where they were catching LMB in shallow river water, water temp 95 degrees. Not stripers I know, but 95 ??

Okay so partly I may just want to believe the fish can deal. But mostly I can't explain what I have seen myself. Twice so far.

[drinva]

Author,


This happens to us at night 2-3 times a year, even in the colder water temps. Once you touch him he is GONE and gone fast. Usually if you leave them long enough they are GONE by themselves.

So you're not alone

Not much help

DR

[Deleted]

Very interesting.

I know when if I fish in the summer, and I do on occasion, when I release a fish in hot water I don't lay it back in the water or just toss it back in. I torpedo it back in, high and hard so it can get back down to cooler water......the longer it lays around in hot water, the less likely it is to survive,...... just my opinion......the same principal applies to bait, if it takes you very long to get your bait down to cooler water, you are fishing with dead bait......

Actually, and I don't have any scientific data to prove it, since I'm not a scientist but I think that bringing them up from deep water to fast is more harmful than the water temps......which is completely at odds with landing them quick and releasing them quick.......I'm not talking fighting a fish till its' almost dead but bringing it up from 60 ft. and deeper to the surface in a matter of a couple minutes.......just my opinion from the fish I've caught in hot water........

[Deleted]

Just got back from a pig roast (good chit) and wanted to finish my post.

I think that the sudden change in water pressure disorients them is why they flounder around on the surface. I've caught fish 25 ft. deep in 82 degree water and fish 60 ft. deep in 82 degree water and they definitely don't act the same when you release them. Heck, I'm just a dumb hillbilly (no offense hillbilly) ;D but it "seems" like if I land the fish a little slower it gives them time to acclimate to the change in water pressure and the release is easier......

Definitely would like to here others thoughts and opinions........

[wishforfish]

One of my fraternity brothers is/was considered "the man" for blue catfish on the James. They even did a story on him in F&S because of his reputation as a guide. They would use a long needle to relieve every fishes swim bladder because they would not survive otherwise. I have absolutely no clue whether or not that could also apply to stripers brought up from summer depths on downlines or not. Never really thought about it until now. Maybe someone else out there might know? I too have experienced what was described though a few times.

[BentRod]

I've had the same thing happen many times. I honestly think in some cases it may be a pressure change thing and in others it's just that the fish is a little shocked or stunned at first. Best way to release a striper that I've found anytime of the year is to either torpedo it or just throw it back in to "wake it up." Sometimes when you just lay it in the water, it will just sit there for a minute, but if you torpedo it, it will generally wake right up and be gone. Most stripers that just lay on top will swim off eventually (some don't though). Do they live when the water is 85deg? I have no idea. I'm torn on the subject, because I want to release as much as possible, but I also am not sure what is living or not, so I just try to limit my fishing in hot water. Everything I read on the subject points towards most of the fish released in hot water will eventually die even if they swim off. It may take a day or two, but a majority 50-75% do not survive is what most studies indicate. I do not know how they can prove that accurately, but that's what most studies conclude. Could SML be different? Possibly, but water is water, right? Yes, we have more thermal refuge than some lakes, but as Bigun stated, pressure changes or barotrauma is also a concern for deep stripers. I've seen this discussed hundreds of times and I'm not sure that anybody really knows for sure, but studies tend to suggest that C&R mortality during the summer is much higher than normal. At the end of the day, I think you just have to do what is legal and what you can live with.

[BentRod]

This is a good (long 3pgs) read from some very good striper fishermen in Ga. around Lake Lanier. They seem to have the same questions we do about SML.

forum.gon.com/showthread.php?p=7027912

[Deleted]

Good read, sounds just like us, and I still don't know for sure either way.

[wishforfish]

So my question would be how much would it cost to tag fish with some type of short term tracking to actually conclude mortality rates in SML. Not cheap I know but if the tracking only had to last 48-72 hours I would think it wouldn't be crazy? Put together a tourney or some mechanism to get it going, fund it and record the data. Even if it is 20 fish you could get an idea. Has anyone explored this with VDGIF and what are the hold ups?

[mwardncsu]

We explored this with Dan Wilson - the radio tags are not cheap, but it is doable with an approach like you say. The other issue is manpower to track the tags.

We thought we had a path to get this done - they had an intern or something coming on board and radio tagging stripers was one of the possible projects. Unfortunately she or someone decided on another project.

Funding and DGIF resource are the main holdup - we might be able to find a way to solve the funding part.....

[wishforfish]

We could most likely resolve the resource part too but with my present situation I would be volunteering others time. What was the cost or was there ever a price tag put on it?

[BentRod]

Here is my issue with that type of radio tag study...the radio tags have to be surgically implanted into the fish and then sewn shut. How is that possible to do in a timely manner? There was one study where I saw that done and every fish was out of the water 3-5minutes at a minimum and not a single fish even swam off. You just cannot keep a fish out of the water 5minutes in 85deg water with 85deg+ air temps and expect it to live. It's not happening. If there was a way to tag these fish very quickly and get them back in the water, then it's possible you could get a better idea.

[2 oars & a trash can]

So the solution needs to involve miniature aquatic robotics and fish-facial recognition.
Piece of cake.

[Deleted]

Surely, if the mortality studies that have been conducted on other lakes have any merit and summer time catch @ release is detrimental to the fish population or the long term stability of it, they would change the rules or something..... believe me, my confidence in any govt. agency has been shaken to the core......do we second guess the people that get paid for this and are supposed to know?

[drinva]

So many variables come into play. I kinda like Tylers answer and if he dont mind I'll borrow it!

^{At the end of the day, I think you just have to do what is legal and what you can live with.}

DR