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Post by Red Bear on Apr 18, 2019 12:19:58 GMT -5
you dont have to be sight fishing to be bed fishing. and 2011 is a pretty dated study. guys wouldnt have to be paying to have bass stocked in the lake like a few years ago if the bass fishery were that great. plus i see less and less bass around my dock each year. they used to make beds under and around my dock, now they dont. i spend 4 or 5 days down on the dock and dont see a single bass swim by some long weekends, i used to see schools swim by.
guys are going to be pulling bass off beds whether they know it or not, and thats when the predators swoop in and eat the eggs and/or fry, therefore harming the spawn
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penhook
New Member
R.I.P. we love you pepaw
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Post by penhook on Apr 18, 2019 12:49:43 GMT -5
you dont have to be sight fishing to be bed fishing. and 2011 is a pretty dated study. guys wouldnt have to be paying to have bass stocked in the lake like a few years ago if the bass fishery were that great. plus i see less and less bass around my dock each year. they used to make beds under and around my dock, now they dont. i spend 4 or 5 days down on the dock and dont see a single bass swim by some long weekends, i used to see schools swim by. guys are going to be pulling bass off beds whether they know it or not, and thats when the predators swoop in and eat the eggs and/or fry, therefore harming the spawn i don´t see the bass swim by my dock like I used to either |
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Post by bigbasstour on Apr 18, 2019 15:59:22 GMT -5
you dont have to be sight fishing to be bed fishing. and 2011 is a pretty dated study. guys wouldnt have to be paying to have bass stocked in the lake like a few years ago if the bass fishery were that great. plus i see less and less bass around my dock each year. they used to make beds under and around my dock, now they dont. i spend 4 or 5 days down on the dock and dont see a single bass swim by some long weekends, i used to see schools swim by. guys are going to be pulling bass off beds whether they know it or not, and thats when the predators swoop in and eat the eggs and/or fry, therefore harming the spawn i don´t see the bass swim by my dock like I used to either You didn't read my post clearly, it stated that we have data since 2011 and that includes every year since and if you're basing your arguments/opinions on the fact that you don't see bass swimming by your specific dock, then I don't think this discussion will prove worthwhile for anyone... |
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Post by ghostcomanche©® on Apr 18, 2019 16:07:52 GMT -5
Food for thought with this discussion...........
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greg
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Post by greg on Apr 18, 2019 16:17:21 GMT -5
We sure do appreciate the passion for SML and the feedback here. To provide some insight/context for those who've posted questions or comments here: 1. We've visited SML for 9 years now and have varied the schedule over a 3-4 week window each year based on a number of factors. 2. Based on our "big bass" format, we limit the number of fish allowed in livewells and we actually see less fish at the scales than a 150 boat stringer event that visits the lake. The facts are simple math and we share numbers of fish caught and the weights with everyone. It's easy data to find and therefore easy to educate yourself regarding the number of fish we handle. 4. Lastly and most importantly our data collected from SML since 2011 shows that the fishery is in outstanding shape and the overall bass population is strong. Just curious as to a few of your responses. 1. The variance in your schedule each year seems to correspond to the spawn. We all know you want more and bigger fish brought to the stage, makes for bigger crowds, and a better return on next years participants. 2. Less fish in the livewells because if someone catches a fish that is not in contention, it will be thrown back, but not necessarily where it was caught. There is NO WAY POSSIBLE for you to share the number of fish caught, only the number brought to the scales. That is, as you say, is simple math. 4. What data do you speak of? Do have a link to share? The bottom line, and you can deny it all you want, it's all about the money. You want as many big fish brought to the scales as possible, therefore ensuring a successful tournament for you. The more participants, the better return on your investment. Once the fishery is ruined, you'll move on to another lake. Prove us all wrong ..... next year come in the summer or fall. |
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Post by bigbasstour on Apr 18, 2019 17:44:51 GMT -5
We sure do appreciate the passion for SML and the feedback here. To provide some insight/context for those who've posted questions or comments here: 1. We've visited SML for 9 years now and have varied the schedule over a 3-4 week window each year based on a number of factors. 2. Based on our "big bass" format, we limit the number of fish allowed in livewells and we actually see less fish at the scales than a 150 boat stringer event that visits the lake. The facts are simple math and we share numbers of fish caught and the weights with everyone. It's easy data to find and therefore easy to educate yourself regarding the number of fish we handle. 4. Lastly and most importantly our data collected from SML since 2011 shows that the fishery is in outstanding shape and the overall bass population is strong. Just curious as to a few of your responses. 1. The variance in your schedule each year seems to correspond to the spawn. We all know you want more and bigger fish brought to the stage, makes for bigger crowds, and a better return on next years participants. 2. Less fish in the livewells because if someone catches a fish that is not in contention, it will be thrown back, but not necessarily where it was caught. There is NO WAY POSSIBLE for you to share the number of fish caught, only the number brought to the scales. That is, as you say, is simple math. 4. What data do you speak of? Do have a link to share? The bottom line, and you can deny it all you want, it's all about the money. You want as many big fish brought to the scales as possible, therefore ensuring a successful tournament for you. The more participants, the better return on your investment. Once the fishery is ruined, you'll move on to another lake. Prove us all wrong ..... next year come in the summer or fall. 1. We don't care what size fish are brought to the scales and that has no impact. We visit lakes where the big fish is 11lbs and lakes where a big fish is 6lbs. The format is successful on any fishery. Lastly we run a trail that's angler based not crowd based, there's no benefit to us whether there is a small crowd or large crowd. 2. There's less fish in the livewells because we limit the number anglers can have. Yes, of course there are other fish caught that we don't see at the stage but that's the case with any tournament. Where did we ever say we could account for ALL fish caught? 3. All results are on our website since 2015 and I've regularly shared our numbers from data not on the site because we have it internally. It doesn't matter how many anglers show up for an event and how many are fishing, we only see 20-40 fish an hour regardless of the size of the field. 4. We run a for profit entity and we've never said otherwise but your comment regarding ruining a fishery is ridiculous. We've been to SML nine years now and that's not changing anytime soon. As I've shared, the fishery is in great shape and the narrative that it's not simply isn't valid. ALL fisheries go through transitions and changes due to a number of factors but tournament angling isn't the culprit even though it makes an easy target. The simple facts are we will see maybe 375-450 fish at the scales TOTAL (125-150 a day) and regardless of how many comments are posted here, you simply can't adversely affect a fishery as large as SML with 450 fish pre-spawn, spawn or post. That math just can't play out in favor of the naysayers. If there was a problem at SML it would represent itself in the weights and numbers of fish weighed in at some point in the last nine years and it simply hasn't. Thanks for all the feedback and comments. Tight lines everyone! We are moving along now. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2019 19:27:41 GMT -5
Interesting, you commented on every post except for the one ghost made. You can cherry pick all the data that you want .... This is our home lake. We are here 24/7 and and we fish every month of the year. No one is more qualified to see or say what is harmful to our fishery than we are. We certainly don't need you to talk down to us in a superior fashion, when we have more data in our fishing logs in one year than you have the entire time you have been holding tournaments here.
You keep referring back to your tournament not being harmful to the fishery. The issue here is bed fishing being harmful to the fishery, which you know full well the majority of your anglers will be doing. To say they aren't would be pretty naive on your part.
Wish you the best, and hope you have a safe and productive tournament.
Best Regards
Bigun
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Post by bigbasstour on Apr 18, 2019 21:06:48 GMT -5
Interesting, you commented on every post except for the one ghost made. You can cherry pick all the data that you want .... This is our home lake. We are here 24/7 and and we fish every month of the year. No one is more qualified to see or say what is harmful to our fishery than we are. We certainly don't need you to talk down to us in a superior fashion, when we have more data in our fishing logs in one year than you have the entire time you have been holding tournaments here. You keep referring back to your tournament not being harmful to the fishery. The issue here is bed fishing being harmful to the fishery, which you know full well the majority of your anglers will be doing. To say they aren't would be pretty naive on your part. Wish you the best, and hope you have a safe and productive tournament. Best Regards Bigun Don’t see anyone named Ghost? Not trying to skip anyone, simply joined the board to answer back and provide some insight which it’s crystal clear not one person here is interested in listening to. It’s probably easier if you just come out and say we are locals and we don’t want anyone on “our” holes than trying to pitch a doomsday scenario. Take care gents |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2019 21:19:13 GMT -5
Not trying to pitch anything. If you new me, you wouldn't make that statement.  Just trying to see what kind of steward you are of any fishery and get your honest opinion on bed fishing, which you thus far have avoided giving.
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Yam
New Member
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Post by Yam on Apr 19, 2019 2:11:56 GMT -5
Not trying to skip anyone, simply joined the board to answer back and provide some insight which it’s crystal clear not one person here is interested in listening to. It’s probably easier if you just come out and say we are locals and we don’t want anyone on “our” holes than trying to pitch a doomsday scenario. Take care gents When you say "listen to" you should actually be saying "buy into." In other words, you signed up to address concerns and expect everyone to "buy into" your shallow justifications that provide nothing more than fairy tales so you and your fellow pirates can sleep at night. It doesn't require an advanced degree to recognize that you shouldn't remove the entity in charge of protecting its offspring, hold it in a foreign jail for God knows how long, show it off, drop it off in some far away place, and then expect it to find its traumatized mind and most likely injured body back home in a timely manner. This is simply a bad idea for every species that exists on this planet. You would be better served to just keep quiet and enjoy your profits while you still can. I'm not sure if it's your guilt or your ego that drives you to address this forum in the manner you have chosen. But just in case it's your ego, then maybe you should recognize your arguments are transparent and shallow and will only work with folks who need a pill for their feelings of guilt. Your rationale won't work with folks who actually care about the lake. Finally, you should know that personally I took no issue with your tournament until you started with your condescending voice. The practice of fishing bass beds has been banned in other places and the more you continue to talk, the quicker your practice will be banned here. Perhaps you might try this approach, "Fellow fishermen, we appreciate your passion for your lake and want you to know that we will make every effort in the future to hold our tournaments on dates that do not negatively impact SML." |
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Post by ohiobasser on Apr 19, 2019 8:25:18 GMT -5
The college open tournament and the High School open tournaments are also that weekend (Fri. 26 and Sat. 27) on SML out of Parkway Marina. This year's Bass Spawn is going to be a disaster. In response to the guy who said anglers are not going to be picking fish off beds, who are you trying to fool? I fish tournaments and although I don't like having tournaments while bass are on spawning beds, that is what it takes to win during the spawn. Did you read any of our previous response? Secondly, do you think the spawn is an event that happens over one day or one weekend? How exactly is it going to make "this year's bass spawn a disaster?" Can you share with us any facts on how this is going to have a major impact on anything? Reading your response and believing your BS are two different things. I know the spawn does not happen over 1 weekend but the spawn that would have happened this weekend will be ruined. maybe YOU are not listening to the responses. There are lots of places you could have had this tournament the same weekend where the bass have already spawned or you could have the tournament at this lake at a different time. |
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Post by startingover on Apr 19, 2019 9:52:13 GMT -5
"Don’t see anyone named Ghost? Not trying to skip anyone, simply joined the board to answer back and provide some insight which it’s crystal clear not one person here is interested in listening to. It’s probably easier if you just come out and say we are locals and we don’t want anyone on “our” holes than trying to pitch a doomsday scenario.
Take care gents"
I guess I'll throw in my .02 even though that may be an over evaluation...I started fishing bass tournaments on SML over 30 years ago. Went to professional bass fishing school with folks like Brauer, Nixon (old school), Van Dam, etc. 6 consecutive years Va Mr Bass qualifier, blah blah blah...I can honestly say I never intentionally fished beds and I did pretty well. Maybe I didn't have the patience, maybe I just wasn't good at it, but I didn't have to be. On a lake the size of SML, or Buggs, Gaston, James, Cherokee, Kentucky (you name it) the bass are in different stages in different parts of the body of water. I could usually target the stage I wanted to fish without looking for beds. In fact if I was fishing an area where it seemed like all the bass were on beds, I would make a major run. Ok, so what's my point...It is that I feel I do not have an ignorant opinion, nor do I "not listen" to other opinions...
The discussion here seems to be whether or not having major tournaments during the spawn is harmful to the fishery, not just on sml, but on all fisheries. So let's get off the sml honey hole concept, it's bigger than that. To say moving hundreds of fish off beds during spawn has no impact is ludicrous, of course it will have an impact. I don't even see how anyone could debate that. But how MUCH impact is certainly debatable IMHO. Either way, if we could agree that large tournaments during spawn will have at least SOME impact on the fishery, then why would Bass Tournaments do it at all? To Basstour's point, if it doesn't matter what size bags are brought in then why not intentionally avoid that time and ensure there is ZERO impact?? Even further, we seem to be holding the tournament organizer responsible but what about the competitors themselves? Don't THEY have some responsibility to protect the fishery? They are the ones that choose to fish beds. Why? At the end of the day it DOES matter what size bags are brought in. No bass fishermen want to spend all that time and money to bring in small limits. Most of the big tournaments being held on lakes that typically have larger fish is no accident. Does anyone really think if Rayburn, Chickamuga, Okeeechobee, Eufala, etc only had 2-3# fish any of us would recognize those names???
As much as I have always loved bass fishing and even though I don't fish tournaments anymore... I have to agree with the "locals". Beds fishing DOES have some impact on the fishery and there is NO WAY to logically argue that there is any reason NOT to schedule tournaments away from that time.
Well, except one...bass fisherman account for over $16,000,000,000 dollars to the US economy annually. Good luck getting anyone to worry about losing a few bass fry 
Thanks for reading (if you got this far. lol)
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Post by ghostcomanche©® on Apr 19, 2019 10:17:04 GMT -5
BigBassTour......You apparently missed my earlier post.
Here it is again for your consumption, and it is merely to point out that there is scientific data available that says fishing for bedding bass can, and will harm any fishery. And of course, you can take it anyway you want. Information such as this is easily available with a simple Google search.
************************************************************************************************************
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Post by bigbasstour on Apr 19, 2019 12:32:04 GMT -5
"Don’t see anyone named Ghost? Not trying to skip anyone, simply joined the board to answer back and provide some insight which it’s crystal clear not one person here is interested in listening to. It’s probably easier if you just come out and say we are locals and we don’t want anyone on “our” holes than trying to pitch a doomsday scenario.
Take care gents"
I guess I'll throw in my .02 even though that may be an over evaluation...I started fishing bass tournaments on SML over 30 years ago. Went to professional bass fishing school with folks like Brauer, Nixon (old school), Van Dam, etc. 6 consecutive years Va Mr Bass qualifier, blah blah blah...I can honestly say I never intentionally fished beds and I did pretty well. Maybe I didn't have the patience, maybe I just wasn't good at it, but I didn't have to be. On a lake the size of SML, or Buggs, Gaston, James, Cherokee, Kentucky (you name it) the bass are in different stages in different parts of the body of water. I could usually target the stage I wanted to fish without looking for beds. In fact if I was fishing an area where it seemed like all the bass were on beds, I would make a major run. Ok, so what's my point...It is that I feel I do not have an ignorant opinion, nor do I "not listen" to other opinions...
The discussion here seems to be whether or not having major tournaments during the spawn is harmful to the fishery, not just on sml, but on all fisheries. So let's get off the sml honey hole concept, it's bigger than that. To say moving hundreds of fish off beds during spawn has no impact is ludicrous, of course it will have an impact. I don't even see how anyone could debate that. But how MUCH impact is certainly debatable IMHO. Either way, if we could agree that large tournaments during spawn will have at least SOME impact on the fishery, then why would Bass Tournaments do it at all? To Basstour's point, if it doesn't matter what size bags are brought in then why not intentionally avoid that time and ensure there is ZERO impact?? Even further, we seem to be holding the tournament organizer responsible but what about the competitors themselves? Don't THEY have some responsibility to protect the fishery? They are the ones that choose to fish beds. Why? At the end of the day it DOES matter what size bags are brought in. No bass fishermen want to spend all that time and money to bring in small limits. Most of the big tournaments being held on lakes that typically have larger fish is no accident. Does anyone really think if Rayburn, Chickamuga, Okeeechobee, Eufala, etc only had 2-3# fish any of us would recognize those names???
As much as I have always loved bass fishing and even though I don't fish tournaments anymore... I have to agree with the "locals". Beds fishing DOES have some impact on the fishery and there is NO WAY to logically argue that there is any reason NOT to schedule tournaments away from that time.
Well, except one...bass fisherman account for over $16,000,000,000 dollars to the US economy annually. Good luck getting anyone to worry about losing a few bass fry
Thanks for reading (if you got this far. lol)
[/p]
There's a number of good points in this thread.
Here's a few things in replies to all.
A smaller percentage of fish that show up at the scales for any tournament during the spawn were actually on a bed or caught from it. I think almost everyone who's posted here who is an angler would acknowledge that they're not easy to catch at times and in a lot of instances they're simply not there on tournament day when someones located them in practice. The fish move, they're constantly in different stages and the weather, water clarity, temp, wind etc are all factors that consistently thwart sight fishing. I know of no other answer than to tell each of you that the majority of the fish are simply not caught sight fishing.
As anglers, you have to recognize and acknowledge the fish, the conditions, the tournament pressure, the format, etc. are all factors that reduce those numbers and the overall numbers of fish we see at the scales. Hundreds of bedding fish are NOT caught and weighed at our events. They're caught all over a fishery, shallow, mid, deep on all kinds of patterns and different baits/presentations. Again, we get 125-150 a day at the scales, so when you tell me that all of those are bedding fish I can tell you with certainty that they're not. We can then all sit here and argue about the percentages of course but with that being said it's simply not statistically significant enough to support the doomsday theory.
You do all realize that there are other tournaments hosting events on the lake during the spawn that are actually weighing in more total fish right? You do all realize that there are anglers all over the lake during the spawn legally taking a limit of fish home for the frying pan correct? Perhaps you should take up a charge against those as well. Those numbers will have a far greater impact on your fishery in March/April/May than we will in one weekend. Who's leading that charge? Can anyone show me that data?
Lastly gents, we already stated that we appreciate your passion and respect your rights to your opinions and said ten times, the actual math and statistics from our events simply do NOT support the narrative that it's damaging the fishery. We've varied our schedule over the last nine years throughout the spring and we will continue to do so. For the majority of the years we've been at SML the fish have not been in full spawn at anytime during our events.
As far as fish studies from Canada, we will leave that one alone and evaluate data and studies from the actual fisheries we visit here in the US.
Happy Easter everyone.
We look forward to seeing those who are fishing next weekend at the event!
Take care.
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Post by smlfishing on Apr 19, 2019 13:47:21 GMT -5
We sure do appreciate the passion for SML and the feedback here. To provide some insight/context for those who've posted questions or comments here: 1. We've visited SML for 9 years now and have varied the schedule over a 3-4 week window each year based on a number of factors. We have other events in our schedule and other events that we attempt to avoid throughout the year regardless of the fishery. So we try to be as flexible as possible with other tournament directors. We aren't targeting spawning fish and I think most of you here understand that there's a number of factors that impact the actual spawn and for most of our visits to SML there's been very little sight fishing going on due to weather, water temps and overall timing. To think that our anglers show up and simply pick fish off of beds the entire time during an event is ridiculous and without merit or any basis in facts. 2. Based on our "big bass" format, we limit the number of fish allowed in livewells and we actually see less fish at the scales than a 150 boat stringer event that visits the lake. The facts are simple math and we share numbers of fish caught and the weights with everyone. It's easy data to find and therefore easy to educate yourself regarding the number of fish we handle. 3. Our fish care is a top priority and always has been, regardless of what fishery we visit. We appreciate the resource and manage our events accordingly. 4. Lastly and most importantly our data collected from SML since 2011 shows that the fishery is in outstanding shape and the overall bass population is strong. Anyone trying to sell you otherwise is simply not providing factual data. Our event is the largest on the lake so that comes with the downside of misdirected/misguided comments and negativity but the simple facts are, we are one event a year with minimal impact and footprint on this fishery in the one weekend a year we visit the lake. We love SML and all of the people and the businesses we've met and get to work with each year and appreciate everyone who fishes with us each year. I agree everyone has a legitimate argument over fishing and moving spawning fish. If you read deep into this forum you will realize no one cares more about this fishery than these guys. Truly not a selfish bone in anyone of them and would help out anyone. I also understand this event brings a lot to our local economy. Since bass fisherman are also good stewards would it not be a win win that these tournament give back and have donation raffles that could go toward the F1 bass stocking? I would think that kind of advertisement would be a plus towards your tournaments. |
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Just trying to see what kind of steward you are of any fishery and get your honest opinion on bed fishing, which you thus far have avoided giving. 
