Dannco EzCLean versus Venturi

[Brian]

Also, I used 4" PVC on my old boat but that gets clogged pretty quick... I'm going to use the biggest I can find this time... Or maybe several smaller ones in parallel connected by pipes between them at top and bottom so as they clog, the overflow will go to the next one.

[Deleted]

Awesome sketch! Thank you! The screen makes great sense now. More questions.



1. Did your top screw on?

2. How did you support your filter pipe? Your design requires gravity...correct?

3. How does the directional intake thing work? What is the purpose or idea behind that?

4. Are you satisfied with reintroducing the water at the top of the live well? Why?



Check out this link when you get the chance.



www.youtube.com/watch?v=ectupxqftWI

This could solve your end of the day red nose issue and seems rather easy as well.  I'm still confused on where the optimum place is to reintroduce the water and if current is actually needed or is a bad thing.

[BentRod]

Carbon isn't going to remove ammonia in a boat tank effectively. It's mainly to clear the water up. Zeolite will help to remove ammonia. You really just need the polyfil. I like BRCarls design for the limited space you have. It should work pretty good actually. I would reintroduce your water from the filter as low in the tank as you can to maximize the amount of time your air bubbles are in the water. You don't want it at the top.

[Brian]

1) yes, you have to clean it out after dumping a bunch of shad in there... I even dump them from the net into my front livewell, then transfer to the back one with the filter, but they still slime up the filter when you first put them in.

2) I had it zip-tied to the hinge of the jump seat. I took it out for saltwater trips because I was afraid it would bounce loose. Hoping to figure out a better way this time.

3) It's a directional output... It just redirects the flow from the hose so that it's along the side of the livewell to promote a circular current... No idea if that's needed or not.

4) It was actually a little over halfway up mainly because the way the top cap was molded I couldn't go any higher... Seemed to work fine. Again, no idea why, it's just what I did, not saying it was right but it seemed to work

Also, we're talking filtration, but don't forget the salt and ice (I use frozen water bottles).

[Deleted]

Apr 16, 2014 22:34:57 GMT -5 BentRod said:

Carbon isn't going to remove ammonia in a boat tank effectively. It's mainly to clear the water up. Zeolite will help to remove ammonia. You really just need the polyfil. I like BRCarls design for the limited space you have. It should work pretty good actually. I would reintroduce your water from the filter as low in the tank as you can to maximize the amount of time your air bubbles are in the water. You don't want it at the top.

I was more interested in the microbial media for ammonia removal which is accelerated by better water quality as a result of the charcoal and other filter. The three stages seem to play off each other.

Zeolite?  I will look this up. Not sure what this is. Do you use this? And polyfill? I have no clue how this works as well other than it seems to cause headaches in terms of clogging issues.

Yes, in terms of the lower intake. This seems to be the better solution to me as well although many will argue that surface tension creates most of the O2. But with a good venturi system, I think the lower the better as well in terms of O2 retention. Thanks for chiming in. I think i will settle for where my current inlet is. Its not on the bottom but its not on the top as well.

Bentrod, what are your thoughts on current. Good or bad thing?

[Deleted]

Apr 16, 2014 22:41:18 GMT -5 Brian said:

1) yes, you have to clean it out after dumping a bunch of shad in there... I even dump them from the net into my front livewell, then transfer to the back one with the filter, but they still slime up the filter when you first put them in.

2) I had it zip-tied to the hinge of the jump seat. I took it out for saltwater trips because I was afraid it would bounce loose. Hoping to figure out a better way this time.

3) It's a directional output... It just redirects the flow from the hose so that it's along the side of the livewell to promote a circular current... No idea if that's needed or not.

4) It was actually a little over halfway up mainly because the way the top cap was molded I couldn't go any higher... Seemed to work fine. Again, no idea why, it's just what I did, not saying it was right but it seemed to work

Also, we're talking filtration, but don't forget the salt and ice (I use frozen water bottles).

Yes, the salt and the ice and some other crap along with a de-foaming agent. 

These little bastards are a pain in the ass! I cant wait to get a hook in one!!  

I am closing in on my solution quickly. I think I will let the ideas simmer now. How long before you build yours? Once I get my design completed, I will run it past you. I love the idea of 3 stage filter, especially microbes. However, maybe that is what zeolite and polyfill do? Once I get that down and get more comfortable with the affects of current, i will be ready to draw it out.

Thanks everyone for your input. 

[BentRod]

Apr 16, 2014 23:20:08 GMT -5 Yam said:

Apr 16, 2014 22:34:57 GMT -5 BentRod said:

Carbon isn't going to remove ammonia in a boat tank effectively. It's mainly to clear the water up. Zeolite will help to remove ammonia. You really just need the polyfil. I like BRCarls design for the limited space you have. It should work pretty good actually. I would reintroduce your water from the filter as low in the tank as you can to maximize the amount of time your air bubbles are in the water. You don't want it at the top.

I was more interested in the microbial media for ammonia removal which is accelerated by better water quality as a result of the charcoal and other filter. The three stages seem to play off each other.

Zeolite?  I will look this up. Not sure what this is. Do you use this? And polyfill? I have no clue how this works as well other than it seems to cause headaches in terms of clogging issues.

Yes, in terms of the lower intake. This seems to be the better solution to me as well although many will argue that surface tension creates most of the O2. But with a good venturi system, I think the lower the better as well in terms of O2 retention. Thanks for chiming in. I think i will settle for where my current inlet is. Its not on the bottom but its not on the top as well.

Bentrod, what are your thoughts on current. Good or bad thing?

My opinion is charcoal, carbon, zeolite, etc are not worth the money or effort in a boat tank..you don't need them for short term storage. I have used carbon before and see no advantages to it. Polyfil or some type of polyfil pads will be all you generally need. You can even use some type of foam pads etc but be careful with those as some have harmful substances on them. You have to clean these regularly in a boat tank as you're fishing.

Most of the O2 does come from the surface, but aeration's main purpose is still to outgas harmful gases, which enables more O2 to be absorbed into the water from the surface. So you still want the aeration as low as possible so the bubbles are rising through most of the water column before escaping at the surface.

Current doesn't really matter in a short term tank. You'll have plenty just with your water re-entry into the tank from the filter..too much can be bad though so dont get a 2000gph pump or something crazy..a 500-750gph pump is plenty..don't think another minute on that..just think Dannco..dannco..dannco.

And the last thing to remember in a closed loop system is salt salt salt.

My advice is keep it simple..all you need is simple filtration that works (this can be the hard part in your case), dannco, and salt. Complexity in this case just creates problems and problems equals dead bait. Filtration, dannco, salt, go fishing.

[striperjohn]

Hey Yam, the charcoal filtration really doesn't help the ammonia problem at all. I add a layer of zeolite which removes the ammonia from the tank. I generally just make day trips, but when I go over for a couple days or weeks and want to keep my bait overnight (long periods) I have to add zeolite and change out the water or they get red nosed fast. You might be able to build yourself a separate filter box that sits next to your battery and allow gravity drain into it and pump it back out below the filtration material. That's basically how the SBTII works. I would suggest keeping your charcoal and zeolite in particle bags (pet shop sells them)and then you just have to wash then out when they get slimy.

[Deleted]

Apr 17, 2014 5:40:09 GMT -5 BentRod said:

Apr 16, 2014 23:20:08 GMT -5 Yam said:

I was more interested in the microbial media for ammonia removal which is accelerated by better water quality as a result of the charcoal and other filter. The three stages seem to play off each other.

Zeolite?  I will look this up. Not sure what this is. Do you use this? And polyfill? I have no clue how this works as well other than it seems to cause headaches in terms of clogging issues.

Yes, in terms of the lower intake. This seems to be the better solution to me as well although many will argue that surface tension creates most of the O2. But with a good venturi system, I think the lower the better as well in terms of O2 retention. Thanks for chiming in. I think i will settle for where my current inlet is. Its not on the bottom but its not on the top as well.

Bentrod, what are your thoughts on current. Good or bad thing?

My opinion is charcoal, carbon, zeolite, etc are not worth the money or effort in a boat tank..you don't need them for short term storage. I have used carbon before and see no advantages to it. Polyfil or some type of polyfil pads will be all you generally need. You can even use some type of foam pads etc but be careful with those as some have harmful substances on them. You have to clean these regularly in a boat tank as you're fishing.

Most of the O2 does come from the surface, but aeration's main purpose is still to outgas harmful gases, which enables more O2 to be absorbed into the water from the surface. So you still want the aeration as low as possible so the bubbles are rising through most of the water column before escaping at the surface.

Current doesn't really matter in a short term tank. You'll have plenty just with your water re-entry into the tank from the filter..too much can be bad though so dont get a 2000gph pump or something crazy..a 500-750gph pump is plenty..don't think another minute on that..just think Dannco..dannco..dannco.

And the last thing to remember in a closed loop system is salt salt salt.

My advice is keep it simple..all you need is simple filtration that works (this can be the hard part in your case), dannco, and salt. Complexity in this case just creates problems and problems equals dead bait. Filtration, dannco, salt, go fishing.

Thanks man..great stuff. I tend to overcomplicate things during the understanding stage then revert back to elegance and simplicity.

The extra staged filtration now seems to me to be a solution for long term running. And as I think about it, my microbes would die if they didn't have a constant stream of fish pee all the time. And from reading about zeolite, it seems like a shock-type treatment more suited for this type of on and off application.

Solution. Place a cap on the main bottom drain with holes in it so that eveything but little fish can get through. Then..just simply tee off the bottom drain. Close a valve to the main drain. Allow head pressure to feed a simple inline filter that can be accessed for cleaning slime every hour or so. Then after the initial and separate filter, allow the head pressure to feed a design just like brcarl. Only my big filter will contain polyfill combined with aqua sponges followed by a zeolite bag. This might be overkill but is still simple. Secondly..having a separate filter will allow quick access for hourly cleaning thus eliminating the need to mess with the main filter all the time. Then finally...having a separate connect at the bottom of the bigger filter that I could hook up my raw water wash down hose to and perform daily backwashes.

The recirc pump will be a 500 so as not to overwhelm the little fellas. And then I will use the venturi system from Dannco.
The inlet will be my current inlet which as it stands points water flow right into the side of the tank thus creating a zone of slight turbulence and a directional current.

And then finally I will install a reverse osmosis...just kidding! Although..it would be cool if I was the only boat on the water that turns lake water into potable water.

[Deleted]

Apr 17, 2014 5:54:32 GMT -5 striperjohn said:

Hey Yam, the charcoal filtration really doesn't help the ammonia problem at all. I add a layer of zeolite which removes the ammonia from the tank. I generally just make day trips, but when I go over for a couple days or weeks and want to keep my bait overnight (long periods) I have to add zeolite and change out the water or they get red nosed fast. You might be able to build yourself a separate filter box that sits next to your battery and allow gravity drain into it and pump it back out below the filtration material. That's basically how the SBTII works. I would suggest keeping your charcoal and zeolite in particle bags (pet shop sells them)and then you just have to wash then out when they get slimy.

Thank you for your input. Collaboration is awesome. I'm converging on your solution.

[BentRod]

Sounds pretty good.

[Deleted]

Apr 16, 2014 22:41:18 GMT -5 Brian said:

1) yes, you have to clean it out after dumping a bunch of shad in there... I even dump them from the net into my front livewell, then transfer to the back one with the filter, but they still slime up the filter when you first put them in.

2) I had it zip-tied to the hinge of the jump seat. I took it out for saltwater trips because I was afraid it would bounce loose. Hoping to figure out a better way this time.

3) It's a directional output... It just redirects the flow from the hose so that it's along the side of the livewell to promote a circular current... No idea if that's needed or not.

4) It was actually a little over halfway up mainly because the way the top cap was molded I couldn't go any higher... Seemed to work fine. Again, no idea why, it's just what I did, not saying it was right but it seemed to work

Also, we're talking filtration, but don't forget the salt and ice (I use frozen water bottles).

Hey. Spoke with Dan from Dannco today. Great guy. He mentioned the best application for us is to use the bulkhead fitting in conjunction with the venturi and creating a new 1.25" hole at the very bottom of the tank. The venturi should be the last component before the tank. No elbows no nothing. Thus your drawing may need a slight mod.

Quick question on the poly fill. What are its dimensions? Can you make a circular pad out of it? I'm thinking if a few compartments are made in the filter, the top compartment would have filters that were like steel wool used only for slime. Then..the whole filter box sits in a permanennt mount where it can be easily lifted up out of the mount above the water line and the top filters could be easily cleaned without the need for any valves. Otherwise I'm thinking we would need a valve on the tank outlet and a check valve on the discharge side of the pump for cleaning these filters. Whatever the final solution..I'm convinced we need an efficient and easy to clean filter medium for the slime.

I don't want cloiging issues.

[Brian]

Apr 17, 2014 20:39:41 GMT -5 Yam said:

The venturi should be the last component before the tank. No elbows no nothing. Thus your drawing may need a slight mod.

Good info. Easy enough.

Quick question on the poly fill. What are its dimensions?

The stuff I use is in huge sheets intended for making quilts. I just rip off a piece and stuff it in the pipe... And rather than washing it, I just pull it out and stuff in a fresh chunck. One bag lasts me for years (but I don't fish much in the summer).

Whatever the final solution..I'm convinced we need an efficient and easy to clean filter medium for the slime.

I agree.

I don't want cloiging issues.

Cloiging issues sound very bad.

[Pete D.]

This from dannco I on their ez clean:

Hi I am looking for a recirculation pump for my livewell. I typically use gizzard shad, blueback herring, and threadfin shad in my bait well. I have a 17 gallon tank. How tall is the 500GPH EZ Clean setup? Also, will the filter work well for shad or will I be cleaning it out too often? Thanks for your time.

- Pete

Pete,
To use the EZ Clean, the water in your bait tank would have to be at least 11 inches deep.

Its filter is 4 in. in diameter which is not much filter area. The EZ Clean works best where you buy bait from a bait guy that has "tank conditioned" his bait several days before you get it. That way the bait is all pooped out without much left to filter.

Dan

[piper]

Yam..I bought a pressurized pond filter from lowes. It includes the container with inlet and outley, 1 aggressive mesh filter, 1 other foam filter and then little plastic bio filter balls. Screw off the top to clean filters periodically..I made my own venturi out if pvc. May get a Dannco when money permits. I think this will work well in your alotted space. Ill check measurements tom.