3/28 3/29 one sucess then failure

[smlfishing]

3/28 we fished 4 boards on the bank side one on the creek side and 1 float and 1 free line out the back using ales and small gizzards caught 3 fish and had several misses and chases.  one on the float and most action on bank side  Stopped to look for bait in a cove trying to get out of the wind.  Our personal best success this year was catching 8 10-14" gizzards.  We finally caught some.  Me and my son were excited to drag them around next day, tying on new leaders with bigger hooks.  Got to the dock this morning to find them all dead.  We had to search for bait most of the morning but lucked into 2 dollar bills and smaller gizzards.  We pulled the same spread and changed creeks without any takers.  Did meet a few boats that had caught a few but that wind was brutal.

Does anyone have any suggestions we have a SBT2 35 gallon which had 8 ales and the 8 gizzards my son added salt I am not sure how much but a fair amount and about a half medicine cup better bait.  Went down that night and put a little foam off and put the net under the lid to leave a crack due to foam and smell.  The only thing I have done was add a dannco ventury that you could hear sucking air and left the original air tube hooked up to the pump.  We shined a light in to make sure they were getting air and there was tons of bubbles. Can you have to much air?  The next morning all but 4 ales were dead.  The gizzards all had red noses and sunk to the bottom.  The top was scummy with foam  We have never had any problems keeping small gizzards and medium large ales so I don't know what happened.  We even changed out to a fresh battery. I am only using scale catcher and the foam filter. I guess you have to have the better filter as I recall I believe John saying his would filter the blue out from the better bait which ours does not. I hope this is detailed enough. We are thinking about going back out to see if we can find some more but want to make sure we can keep them alive.

Thanks

[coheasion]

Aww man....that is not a good feeling. I will say that I was had much better luck on Sunday with smaller baits in the middle of the channels. But, like anything else with fishing that has probably changed by now lol!

I will let others chime in on bait keeping advice but it seems to me that combining 2 ingredients, salt + something else can sometimes cause issues as most of those other things are primarily salt as well.

[striperjohn]

Sounds like lack of filtration plus too much ammonia. But tough to diagnose online. Thinking lack of water change and bad filters bud.
I put activated charcoal in filter bags from petsmart. (It costs like 20.00 but in the bags rinse and dry after each trip and they will last you a season.) Then put prefilter chips made by Fluval on top if that. Then two fiber filters on top of that. Clean them fiber filters out every couple hours and change 30% of water every 3-4,hours at this temp.
I had 6 big gizzards, 6 moneymakers and 5 dozen peanuts in my tank last week from dark to 7am with not one loss. I will post some pics of what I do later.

[smlfishing]

Coheasion I should have put it in my report but the water temp was low 50's today, Sunday when we went scouting I saw 58 59. I am hoping it will warm back up. We did not hardly see any bait flipping. I meet a guy on Monday that said he had not had much luck on big bait either. I will say it was uplifting to finally catch some though.

John My dad has some aquariums I might see what I can raid till I go back to work next week after my kids spring break and set it up like you have it. I started it up last night @ 7 but did not go back down until 6am. I looked at the bag is it possible to put to much salt? I think he added a lot and I noticed where water splashed on the dock left white spots. It definitely had a smell to it this morning but was not sure if that was just dead fish. I have never had any problem with ales or peanuts I guess the bigger ones make more of a mess. I appreciate your help

[Happy Camper]

Just my opinion,"started it up last night @ 7 but did not go back down until 6am" was probally the problem,the bigger the gizzards and more crowded the nastier it gets.When they hit that saltwater they tend to slime really bad,I think they upchuck their stomach contents also.Most times you have to babysit them for 1-3 hr cleaning scale catcher and filters dipping off foam,a few times times until they clean up,before leaving them overnight.Next time notice how thick the slimecoat gets right after you put them in the tank,you'll see what I mean.Hope this helps and sometimes they die for no apparent reason and it will only get worse as it gets warmer.

[quackquackboom]

I am still pretty green at the live bait game but...

I had a similar circumstance once. My problem Was I didn't let the bait purge long enough before changing the water. You have to let those gizzards cure out for a while. Even if it's just a pile of small ones. When I got up the water was foamy and green and half my bait was dead. Now I let them cure for ample time and do a good water change. Also - a purge bucket before they go in the tank is really helpful.

Doubt it's the combo of salt and better bait. I do that every time.

[johnr]

I must be the only person in the world who doesn't change his water...

When I first load the tank, I change filters about every 40 minutes for a couple hours. Not just rinse the filter and put it back, I replace it with a fresh one and let the used one air out some.

Alewives work better on the lower blackwater side...

[smlfishing]

I have a Rubbermaid horse trough that we use for catfish bait and constantly pump fresh water into it. I might use it as a purge tank next time to let them de slime some. I have gotten some better filters as well and are seeing how they clear up the water now. I do have extra's so changing them out is an option and probably a little easier in the middle of the night. medium to large ales are what we have been catching them on but it was a goal to catch a mongo. Just seems odd something that big is so delicate and I have not done near this amount of stuff and hardly ever lost an ale until I mixed them with the big gizzards.
I appreciate everyone's help.

[fly]

Got you a bildge pump with a long piece of hose on it.... You don't have to change all of the water. Are your bubbles big or little ? Lots of little bubbles is was you want. Salt is a must, "better bait" is cool and all but a little coffee creamer won't hurt either. Keep your filters clean. And you kind of want the water flowing in a circle, if you can keep them swimming; then they'll be getting plenty of air. If the are just setting in there and not swimming, then they are not getting a lot of oxygen. And I second the previous comments, sounds like ammonia.

[Deleted]

Mar 30, 2016 6:52:54 GMT -5 johnr said:

I must be the only person in the world who doesn't change his water...

When I first load the tank, I change filters about every 40 minutes for a couple hours. Not just rinse the filter and put it back, I replace it with a fresh one and let the used one air out some.

Alewives work better on the lower blackwater side...

I rarely change mine. My theory has always been that changing water with bait in it is risky. The bait has become used to the water in the tank. New water ultimately means you will be changing one to many of the plethora of variables where a sudden change can cause issues. My feeling is that concentrating on maintaining a good water quality from the onset is the ticket to success. Keeping your filters clean, maintaining a good flow, minimizing foam and keeping a steady temperature is the key. Purging fresh bait, not putting used bait back into the tank and resisting the urge to pee in your tank are good practices as well.

[smlfishing]

I usually don't use the better bait but this was a special occasion and did not want them to die.

Fly my son added the salt later I found he did not use the cup, but just dumped it in and I believe a lot. I checked the air tubes blowing in them and could taste salt and spots of dried water that was on the dock were white in color. The air bubbles seemed small and lots of them. From the very beginning with fresh water they never swam very good.

Yam this was my first experience catching mongos but have had smaller to dollar bill gizzards and if they looked good I have put them back into the tank. What types of problems can that cause?




More question can you have to much salt and if bait is caught >20 fow does bringing it up cause any problems?

[mwardncsu]

Let's back up a little here - "....which had 8 ales and the 8 gizzards..." That is nothing in a 35 gal tank even with 10-14" giz assuming other conditions are right. Now, ales & giz sometimes do not mix well - the big baits stress the heck out of gizzards and they will throw off more ammonia, but you should not have had an issue overnight.


- It is possible you had too much salt in the tank - did you see any signs of "bleeding" though the skin?
- Was the water cloudy in the morning? Did it have an ammonia or "skunky" (not that of a skunk, but that's what we call it) smell? If so then it was likely an ammonia issue. Too much salt could make the ammonia more deadly as it reduces the amount of O2 that will be in the water.
- are you sure the venturi was pushing air well? I assume it is installed with the right direction of flow? Once the salt had a chance to dissolve, where the bubbles very fine, almost mist-like?
- did you have a bunch of scales in the scale-basket? Big ones (giz) or small ones (ales)?

[mwardncsu]

Just seems odd something that big is so delicate

When gizzards get ready to lay eggs they can get a big tougher to keep.....

Oh, and that thing about big baits being delicate - let me introduce you to these devils.....

[smlfishing]

I would say it had more than a cup per 10 gallons of water but how much I do not know. The gizzards all had really red noses but did not notice any bleeding. It did have a skunky smell but the venturi was sucking air and I still had the original SBT air hooked up as well. I put the venturi as close to the return as I could. seemed like pretty fine bubbles and a lot of them. I did not see that many large scales no more than 10. I did have 4 6-8 inch ales alive the next morning the ales were floating on top and gizzards at the bottom.

[mwardncsu]

I'd remove the air hose to the original plate on the pump... no need for it... may not hurt but I believe it does shorten the life of the pump.


If the water was skunky and cloudy then it sounds like ammonia..... probably stress from the baits with the mix perhaps. Try lower salt levels next time - I mix ales and giz at times and get through 12+ hours, and as few baits as you had I'm surprised - just keep the filters clean a few times - I wold not go 12 hours without cleaning it - typically clean it a few times in the 1st few hours after catching them and then late in the evening before going to bed. The point to the filters are to "trap the crap" (hey, I like that - I'm going to trademark that... ) but you need to get that crap out of the tank else its still there to provide problems....