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Post by 21 Elite on Oct 31, 2015 8:29:48 GMT -5
Finally got around to adding side scan to the boat. The 455 works like a champ but I'm not seeing any detail with 800. I'm in water less than 30 feet deep should it pick up good? Does anyone have any tips for using 800 Khz more effectively with a Gen 3/LSS 2.
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Post by striperjohn on Oct 31, 2015 9:07:04 GMT -5
Mine works bad until I get in 15ft or less at 855
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Post by 21 Elite on Oct 31, 2015 10:48:53 GMT -5
Is that the normal? I would have thought it would do better. I'll have to wait until I get back on water and try a little shallow water. But isn't 800 going to give better detail? Still learning all the new electronics so sorry for all the questions.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2015 12:25:12 GMT -5
800 has less range than 455. If there is not much to see in that range, 800 is rather dull. It will allow you see things closer to the boat in more detail but overall the picture is not as good as 455. My thought is if shooting out to the side is the goal.. And it is... Then 455 is the way to go.
800 is to 455 what 200 is to 83. Sometimes 83 shows too much thus 200 allows you to hone in on things closest to the boat. However, 83 gives a much better view. Yet for traditional sonar, a better view may be a deceiving view.
In short, just use 455.
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Post by striperjohn on Oct 31, 2015 13:50:51 GMT -5
A lot of the bass fisherman use 855 because it provides much greater detail in shallow water. It allows them to mark specific fish on very minute structure. Bass boat central website has a very good tutorial on using 855. It has its purpose just not so much for striper fishing/bait catching.
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Post by 21 Elite on Oct 31, 2015 15:16:49 GMT -5
OK thanks for clearing things up a little bit. I was thinking 800 would help pin point bait better under the boat. Also has anyone paid attention to were there transducer actually starts to mark relating to what they are passing? It appeared to me I was seeing 4ft before the back of the boat. Or am I having a install problem? Any thoughts >))))'>
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Post by striperjohn on Oct 31, 2015 17:47:53 GMT -5
Hmm I guess you are talking downscan? If so mine shoots a beam straight down from the forward edge of my transom. If your transducer isn't exactly level and the back end is lower then your beam will be aimed ahead of your transom. Where that may hurt is now the sidescan beams are going out at an angle as well. Although it is such a narrow beam at like
.95 degrees , (not even a full 1 degree beam)it should not make that much of a difference.
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Post by 21 Elite on Oct 31, 2015 19:17:15 GMT -5
No I was marking bouys with side scan and was picking them up 4 feet from the transom. The weird part Is my LSS transducer is mounted up in the pocket now that I think of it. It's not angled down or up pretty much level with the water line. I'll have to test it some more when I get a chance.
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Post by Pete D. on Nov 3, 2015 9:10:38 GMT -5
No I was marking bouys with side scan and was picking them up 4 feet from the transom. The weird part Is my LSS transducer is mounted up in the pocket now that I think of it. It's not angled down or up pretty much level with the water line. I'll have to test it some more when I get a chance. Is the transducer level with the keel, or actually level with the water line when scanning? The rear of the ducer should be angled upward some, because the nose of the boat is typically angled up. Many people keep the ducers level with the keel, which is incorrect. The beams at very high frequencies (455 and 800khz) are much smaller, actually paper thin slices that are emitted from the transducer, but they still will travel ahead and behind the transducer. Even though they are not "cones" like 83 and 200khz, they still have a bit of a cone shape, although very small. Pair this with an improper scanning angle, and now we are seeing "ahead" of the transducer. The best picture that you will paint is when the ducer is completely parallel with the water surface in actual conditions.   
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Post by Pete D. on Nov 3, 2015 9:23:58 GMT -5
I have heard from many that 800khz is virtually useless on the LSS-2 system. I have LSS-1 and find it to givve some better clarity with downscan, but really no point to use it with sidescan. It limits the distance, and really doesnt seem to make much of a difference in clarity.
Now, with my humminbird, it seemed to give a bit crisper image.
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Post by striperjohn on Nov 4, 2015 7:06:29 GMT -5
This off the Bass boat Central website 455  800  If you do a search "800khz versus 455" you'll see the link to BBC and this thread. I think you can clearly see the 800 is better near in but with just an 80ft SS you can see how it fades out much quicker than the 455. I have performed a similar test with my LSS2 and get the same results. The 800 is great for those bass fisherman targeting specific structure holding fish. I don't see that it has much use for us as our targets are much larger fish and much larger bait balls/clouds. But the 800 has it use. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2015 7:30:14 GMT -5
John, great find. To add to this, if you are scanning a creek for bait, which do you use? I think the answer is 455 because it will allow you to scan the creek quicker and more effectively. If I find bait with side scan, I can then use it to get a feel for its size. 800 can add value here both for side and down scan. However, the value is not all that great.
I used to use 800 to target bait for a throw but have since learned that side scan is really for determining which side of the boat is a better option. I now use traditional sonar for throwing. Remember that with 83, you are looking at a diameter of roughly the depth of the target. Thus, if you are throwing at targets in 20 feet, your bait could be anywhere in a 20 foot diameter or 10 feet in front, back to the side etc. However, with 200, you are looking at a diameter of roughly 1/3 the depth. So if I see a blob on my sonar at 20 ft., I know it's pretty much right below me so I throw. If my side scan shows it's more to the right... then that's an extra cherry on top.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2015 9:50:54 GMT -5
No I was marking bouys with side scan and was picking them up 4 feet from the transom. The weird part Is my LSS transducer is mounted up in the pocket now that I think of it. It's not angled down or up pretty much level with the water line. I'll have to test it some more when I get a chance. Is the transducer level with the keel, or actually level with the water line when scanning? The rear of the ducer should be angled upward some, because the nose of the boat is typically angled up. Many people keep the ducers level with the keel, which is incorrect. The beams at very high frequencies (455 and 800khz) are much smaller, actually paper thin slices that are emitted from the transducer, but they still will travel ahead and behind the transducer. Even though they are not "cones" like 83 and 200khz, they still have a bit of a cone shape, although very small. Pair this with an improper scanning angle, and now we are seeing "ahead" of the transducer. The best picture that you will paint is when the ducer is completely parallel with the water surface in actual conditions.
Pete, it seems to me that this will work well when on plane. However, how does it work when you are not?? Most of my scanning is done at lower speeds. Wouldn't I want a level transducer during these times more than on plane? |
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Post by mwardncsu on Nov 4, 2015 10:07:55 GMT -5
I agree Yam - though you have to look at your specific boat and how it sits in the water when fishing - if your bait tank and a couple of fishermen that enjoy their burgers and beer, and a big heavy 4-stroke are hanging on the back, the the boat may sit a bit tail-heavy.... if the tank is up front and its one lighter weight guy, then it will sit differently.
I want my StructureScan xducer to be as level as it can with the boat at its natural attitude when I'm going 1-3 mph.
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Gator
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Post by Gator on Nov 4, 2015 10:26:21 GMT -5
Would be kind of cool to have a ducer that was adjustable from the helm. Kind of like a trim tab.
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