Gator
New Member
Posts: 1,534
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Post by Gator on Jan 24, 2015 8:36:40 GMT -5
What happens when we experience high pressure? LOL
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Post by striperjohn on Jan 24, 2015 8:43:52 GMT -5
Oh H no I'm not going there! BTW Gator I'm working on attending the Rodeo. Will PM you later once I get it set.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2015 9:11:34 GMT -5
Yam without providing you graphs and charts and equations--you can find all those on the internet, Subs have been doing this since the first World War. Quite simply the denser water refracts and many times blocks a sonar signal. Subs have been hiding under them for years, pretty common knowledge. We used a bathythermograph to track the temperature, particularly when we were in hostile waters. The temperature was charted at different depths thus allowing you to track the thermocline. The 4 degrees C you mentioned, 39.2 degrees F is the point at which water becomes its most dense. If it gets colder it becomes lighter (ice floats) and this starts a lake turnover. By the way I didn't mean to state that the O2 makes the thermocline denser, just that on our fish finders when you see a thermocline which is denser (that's why you can see it) the o2 will be there. LOL Okay guys, sorry to bore you to death. Look it up. This may be common knowledge to people in the Navy but I didn't know it and it intrigued me. I was simply confused by your statement that the water above and below the thermocline is less dense. I suppose you meant to say that the density gradient or change in density above and below the thermocline is less? So I took your advice and looked it up. This article explains it pretty well. macronomy.blogspot.com/2014/08/credit-thermocline-what-lies-beneath.html?m=1And it does explain that the steep gradient of the thermocline bends sound so quickly that it returns a strong signal just like an object would. Thus, anything in or right below the thermocline will be hard to detect. But once the gradient levels back off, even though the water is denser, the sound bends are more consistent. Thus, a boat significantly below the thermocline in denser water would be detected. Understanding other things better can make you understand what you really care about better. And when I question you, I do it to learn, not to argue for the sake of arguing (Bigun). And I have learned something here and believe that others can learn from discussions like these.
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Post by striperjohn on Jan 24, 2015 9:39:23 GMT -5
Whooo there bud I didn't mean for the response to be nasty etc. Please don't confuse that. I thoroughly enjoy these discussions Yam. I've learned a great deal on this site as well. Please don't misinterpret my responses negatively. I'm retired--I make up crap to do. I just know many folks on here get bored to tears overs some of the discussions--me included. Bigun is like the overseer of keeping in clean . BTW I was told by a friend (works R&D in the sonar world) that our sidescan beam is probably being distorted by a thick thermocline on the hot days in the summer. He said you might test that with a vertical target in the water connected to a parallel target on the shore and then see at what point your ss says the water target is located. HMMMM--another thing to look at. Cheers, John
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2015 9:48:36 GMT -5
Whooo there bud I didn't mean for the response to be nasty etc. Please don't confuse that. I thoroughly enjoy these discussions Yam. I've learned a great deal on this site as well. Please don't misinterpret my responses negatively. I'm retired--I make up crap to do. I just know many folks on here get bored to tears overs some of the discussions--me included. Bigun is like the overseer of keeping in clean . BTW I was told by a friend (works R&D in the sonar world) that our sidescan beam is probably being distorted by a thick thermocline on the hot days in the summer. He said you might test that with a vertical target in the water connected to a parallel target on the shore and then see at what point your ss says the water target is located. HMMMM--another thing to look at. Cheers, John Awesome, I was interpreting that you were getting frustrated. I know I can frustrate the hell of people when I go on my thought journeys. And I don't quit until I feel I get it! Most importantly, I want to feel comfortable questioning you in the future as I have learned a great deal from your experience, advice and comments.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2015 10:44:18 GMT -5
Yam without providing you graphs and charts and equations--you can find all those on the internet, Subs have been doing this since the first World War. Quite simply the denser water refracts and many times blocks a sonar signal. Subs have been hiding under them for years, pretty common knowledge. We used a bathythermograph to track the temperature, particularly when we were in hostile waters. The temperature was charted at different depths thus allowing you to track the thermocline. The 4 degrees C you mentioned, 39.2 degrees F is the point at which water becomes its most dense. If it gets colder it becomes lighter (ice floats) and this starts a lake turnover. By the way I didn't mean to state that the O2 makes the thermocline denser, just that on our fish finders when you see a thermocline which is denser (that's why you can see it) the o2 will be there. LOL Okay guys, sorry to bore you to death. Look it up. This may be common knowledge to people in the Navy but I didn't know it and it intrigued me. I was simply confused by your statement that the water above and below the thermocline is less dense. I suppose you meant to say that the density gradient or change in density above and below the thermocline is less? So I took your advice and looked it up. This article explains it pretty well. macronomy.blogspot.com/2014/08/credit-thermocline-what-lies-beneath.html?m=1And it does explain that the steep gradient of the thermocline bends sound so quickly that it returns a strong signal just like an object would. Thus, anything in or right below the thermocline will be hard to detect. But once the gradient levels back off, even though the water is denser, the sound bends are more consistent. Thus, a boat significantly below the thermocline in denser water would be detected. Understanding other things better can make you understand what you really care about better. And when I question you, I do it to learn, not to argue for the sake of arguing (Bigun). And I have learned something here and believe that others can learn from discussions like these. I should probably be offended by this..... but I'm not. LOL I've always said, you got to have thick skin to be a member on a message board.... without the tone of ones voice in a post, who knows how they're going to take it.... yam, on the arguing, when you slap someone up beside the head in a topic on here, it just brings out their passion. LOL
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2015 11:03:25 GMT -5
Just wondering if you were up. Good morning Bigun!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2015 11:26:38 GMT -5
Good morning yam.
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