12/17 No Cawww but Mongo Time

[Deleted]

Spoon? Nada. Wow things change fast on SML. Monday was a jigger's dream, today..we didn't see it.

However, we stayed on fish all day long. Points and bank boards were the ticket today!

Bounce em off the rocks,
Bounce off the docks,
Stick em in a tree
This is the key!
We call it the planer board bop! BOP BOP!

The bigger the bait, the better! All caught fish were fat and healthy yet we never broke 12 pounds. 



All the monster fish were lost to trees or poor hook sets. Thus, I am done with circles. They just make you timid. So....tonight while my buddy tied on all new leaders and octopus hooks, I tended to Big T. 

Most bait in one throw? 3.

How many throws with nothing? Alot!

How many times did a beaver scare the living the hell out of me? 4

How many times did my body ask me to please stop throwing Big T? Alot!

How many times did I want to throw my lighter Fitek? 0

How many times did I ask myself, what in the world have I become? Infinite.


Yet we have 30 Sharks happily swimming away in my SBTII and I cant wait to sink a hook into their noses, but more importantly, yank the jaws off of those BIG BOYS who have been whipping us!

I know..you told me so.....  I'm on board gents!

[striperjohn]

Yam,
Common mistakes in the use of circle hooks will cause you to miss hookups. It's more of a user problem then a hook problem. Now don't get yourself all defensive. Tests have shown that if both hooks J and Circle are used properly hook up rates are similar, although Circles work much better on some species, however fish survival rates are considerably higher with Circles. Just saying.

Make sure the gap of the hook is exposed, if your rigging large baits using a bridle is a good idea. Circle hooks for large baits DO NOT WORK if the bait is filling the gap of the hook. The gap needs to be as open as possible so the hook can properly turn into the corner of the fishes mouth. I've been using bridles for the last 4-5 years on really big gizzards and my hookup rate has increased a great deal.
There are many ways to rig a bridle but I've found the zip tie method to be the best. I don't use trailer hooks, tried them a couple times and they're simply not worth the mess they cause. Fish go for the head of a bait to kill it. Rigged properly you won't see any difference between J's and Circles.  (Yes trailer hooks work but they also cause more injuries to fish, in particular with J hooks.) The bait has no harm done to it whatsoever, so they stay very active and alive. Plus you can pre-rig them and/or put them right back into the tank if they live through the planer board ride.

I've started using the zip ties with the hole in them for hook placement, that way it doesn't compress against the baits head.

The point needs to be sharp and sometimes that means sharpening brand new hooks right out of the package. A dull J-hook can still work, a dull circle is useless. Use the fingernail trick to test your hooks before you bother tying them on. The only hook brand I've used that I never had to sharpen was Owners, sometime Gamatzu... however you spell it. LOL. Just my 2 cents worth.

[Deleted]

First of all...I am a student and getting defensive is not how I learn.

Secondly, thanks for that info. I will think through what you have written once I get my brain back.

Interestingly enough, the gents staying at campers a few rooms down discussed hooks with me just a few hours ago. This guy who has 30 years of experience, uses a single treble hook through the nose. And he too mentioned the fact that stripers hit the heads first. He hates stingers for many reasons such as: they hurt the stripers, they impede the bait in swimming properly and they suck because they are not located where the striper actually hits the bait!  The head.

Hmmmmmmmm. 

[mwardncsu]

I know from lots of experience that a Striper does not always attack the bait by the head. Many baits with scaled tails / back 1/3 of the bait and no other part touched have proven that.

I will also agree that when aggressively feeding they will attack head first - easier to swallow the bait that way - right? A tail slap to stun the bait and then a head on attack. But then they are more lethargic they will tail snap at them. When they are in that mode, which is the only time I'll use a stinger unless fishing a 12"+ bait - I rarely have issue with a deep hooked stinger. I think all this late fall / early winter have had the stinger in the lip. We usually start without the stinger, and only add it to the big baits when they are short striking.

[Deleted]

Today, only 2 of our fish were caught with the octopus. Our big fish was one of them. All the other fish got stung. And none of them had a stinger hurt them.

This week the circle connected a few times. All others were stinger. One fish required pliers to go deep but we got it out with no issues. Most stinger connections were in the side of the mouth.

Thus, unless something is happening I don't understand, it seems that many stripers may be striking from the tail or the side. My god their mouths are so big, they probably can eat mongos like we eat popcorn. Just engulf it.

I don't know. But on my boat, I've only had one gill death due to stingers and he was 27 inches and had no business messing with my bait!

If I start killing big fish, I will stop. Circle lovers think all other hooks are harmful. I just wanna fish!

[striperjohn]

Not trying to start a Circle versus J hook thing as I have used both, I just prefer circles now. But unless your stinger hook connects then it is possible that in jerking that stinger may have ripped the fish. I suspect a great deal of the bait we have come back that are skinned are done so by catfish, white perch, muskie and/or walleye.
Stripers try to stun their prey first by striking in the head with their head or a tail smack and then go back and swallow it.
If folks are serious about catch and release then read this report by Monmouth. Specifically pages 8-11. NC State has a similar study they conducted a while back on circles versus J hooks and C&R.
www.monmouth.edu/uploadedFiles/Content/University/about-monmouth/centers-of-distinction/urban-coast-institute/BestPracticesStriped%20BassCatchandReleaseReport.pdf

[Deleted]

Dec 19, 2014 8:40:11 GMT -5 striperjohn said:

Not trying to start a Circle versus J hook thing as I have used both, I just prefer circles now. But unless your stinger hook connects then it is possible that in jerking that stinger may have ripped the fish. I suspect a great deal of the bait we have come back that are skinned are done so by catfish, white perch, muskie and/or walleye.
Stripers try to stun their prey first by striking in the head with their head or a tail smack and then go back and swallow it.
If folks are serious about catch and release then read this report by Monmouth. Specifically pages 8-11. NC State has a similar study they conducted a while back on circles versus J hooks and C&R.
www.monmouth.edu/uploadedFiles/Content/University/about-monmouth/centers-of-distinction/urban-coast-institute/BestPracticesStriped%20BassCatchandReleaseReport.pdf

Okay..so I read the report and it is rather convincing. Of course I would like to believe that the fish I release that swim away with vigor are in fact going to live, but I don't know for sure. However, I will say that using the Circle/Stinger combo does keep you from jerking the stinger into the fish deep, so its possible that a stinger on the circle is less deadly than a stinger on a J hook. As mentioned, I only know of 1 slot fish that I downright killed with a stinger. And I remember feeling a little iffy on a few others as well.

So many approaches exist. Personally, I want to maximize my catch rate and minimize killing fish. But don't get me wrong, I'm no "fish lover hippie" if you will, as I am actively seeking (with slobber running from my teeth) a chance to bury a sharp hook into a gorgeous creature and rip him from his environment. In other words, maximizing my catch rate comes first. But...part of being able to continue maximizing my catch rate means I have to be cognizant of protecting the future of the fishery.

The old codger down the way spoke of using a treble hook through the nose with no stinger. He waits til the fish has buried the planer and pulls on his drag.. then jerks it like a mad man. From discussions and thinking, I am feeling this technique might in fact maximize catch rate. He swears by it. BUT...I am also thinking that with 2 deadly hooks of the treble exposed, the fish he rarely misses might have their insides hanging from their mouths. In other words, a J hook seems a little less deadly.

In conclusion, I feel that a J/Stinger combo may be more deadly than a Circle/Stinger combo but far less deadly than the treble in the nose technique. Yet, I am getting tired of giving the hook control of the situation. In other words, I want to blame my inadequate swings rather than cursing that frickn' circle! I know I have lost some really big fish in the last 2 months as a result of not setting the hook. Thus, I think I will try a J/Stinger combo and keep an eye on what I am doing to the fish. My guess is, that I will actually miss more fish using this technique but will increase my chance when the bigger boys who I really only care about, come around. 

My final thought is that I will soon switch to not using stingers at all and moving to only a snelled J hook (HokieChad) or a circle on a bridle (StriperJohn). Perhaps you guys keep maximizing catch rates and minimizing killing fish more aligned than I. And John, it could be that your technique catches better than all of em and saves the fish! At the end of the day I guess I just want to take some more swings at "dem dare" stripers using my new muscle mass given to me by catching and killing all that bait. And when I get home from my MAN adventures....I wanna eat some vegetable medley with my woman and watch "Little Einsteins" with my son and hope that no fish ever is able to tear their insides out with a treble hook.

[Deleted]

Dec 18, 2014 6:39:17 GMT -5 striperjohn said:

Yam,
Common mistakes in the use of circle hooks will cause you to miss hookups. It's more of a user problem then a hook problem. Now don't get yourself all defensive. Tests have shown that if both hooks J and Circle are used properly hook up rates are similar, although Circles work much better on some species, however fish survival rates are considerably higher with Circles. Just saying.

Make sure the gap of the hook is exposed, if your rigging large baits using a bridle is a good idea. Circle hooks for large baits DO NOT WORK if the bait is filling the gap of the hook. The gap needs to be as open as possible so the hook can properly turn into the corner of the fishes mouth. I've been using bridles for the last 4-5 years on really big gizzards and my hookup rate has increased a great deal.
There are many ways to rig a bridle but I've found the zip tie method to be the best. I don't use trailer hooks, tried them a couple times and they're simply not worth the mess they cause. Fish go for the head of a bait to kill it. Rigged properly you won't see any difference between J's and Circles.  (Yes trailer hooks work but they also cause more injuries to fish, in particular with J hooks.) The bait has no harm done to it whatsoever, so they stay very active and alive. Plus you can pre-rig them and/or put them right back into the tank if they live through the planer board ride.

I've started using the zip ties with the hole in them for hook placement, that way it doesn't compress against the baits head.

The point needs to be sharp and sometimes that means sharpening brand new hooks right out of the package. A dull J-hook can still work, a dull circle is useless. Use the fingernail trick to test your hooks before you bother tying them on. The only hook brand I've used that I never had to sharpen was Owners, sometime Gamatzu... however you spell it. LOL. Just my 2 cents worth.

I like this technique alot, especially from a bait perspective. Very efficient! A few questions:

1. Is that zip tie stuck through the eyes?
2. What knot do you use on the hook?
3. What size hook?
4. Can that hook slip out of the zip tie?
5. Do you tighten down on the zip tie after you put the hook on?
6. Can you explain the fingernail method?
7. Do you wait until the drag screams to reel in?

Thanks,
Yam

[striperjohn]

You run the zip tie just above the eyes of the shad. Doesn't harm them at all from what I've seen. I've had them in the bait tank for up to three days and they're still active as heck when you hook them up. I try to pre-rig them and it saves a bunch of time on the water. Also, I don't see any reason you couldn't rig up a stinger hook and/or use J hooks on both hooks.
I use a kite fisher snell knot. I think catsnstripers has a video on here somewhere that shows you how to tie it.
Hook size is dependent on bait size. I have used up to 7/0 but mostly 4/0 and 5/0.
I use small dental (braces type) rubber bands and wrap around the zip to the hook and back. Holds firm and steady.
Yes I tighten the zip tie down. If you get the ties with the hole in them (lowes carries you can insert the hook through the hole and there's no need to tighten the zip tie anymore.
The fingernail method is pretty common regarding sharp hooks. If you angle the hook slightly to drag it along your nail if it's sharp it will stick and not drag. You'll find a lot of hooks out of the package are not very sharp.
Since I fish mainly circles I wait until the rod loads up and then reel like a crazy man. The fun is when you start reeling, you feel the rod double load and the fish pull back hard enough for you to be reeling and the drag slipping going out--that's a nice fish on.
LOL

[striperjohn]

Oh yeah, I haven't been using this on moneymakers just Mongos. I might try it on the smaller shad this spring though.

[Deleted]

Dec 20, 2014 11:44:37 GMT -5 striperjohn said:

You run the zip tie just above the eyes of the shad. Doesn't harm them at all from what I've seen. I've had them in the bait tank for up to three days and they're still active as heck when you hook them up. I try to pre-rig them and it saves a bunch of time on the water. Also, I don't see any reason you couldn't rig up a stinger hook and/or use J hooks on both hooks.
I use a kite fisher snell knot. I think catsnstripers has a video on here somewhere that shows you how to tie it.
Hook size is dependent on bait size. I have used up to 7/0 but mostly 4/0 and 5/0.
I use small dental (braces type) rubber bands and wrap around the zip to the hook and back. Holds firm and steady.
Yes I tighten the zip tie down. If you get the ties with the hole in them (lowes carries you can insert the hook through the hole and there's no need to tighten the zip tie anymore.
The fingernail method is pretty common regarding sharp hooks. If you angle the hook slightly to drag it along your nail if it's sharp it will stick and not drag. You'll find a lot of hooks out of the package are not very sharp.
Since I fish mainly circles I wait until the rod loads up and then reel like a crazy man. The fun is when you start reeling, you feel the rod double load and the fish pull back hard enough for you to be reeling and the drag slipping going out--that's a nice fish on.
LOL

Hard for me to visualize sticking a zip the through the eyes. Isn't there something in there hard? A brain or bone or something?

[striperjohn]

Nope goes through easy. They do studder a bit and keep repeating themselves. Lol. The saltwater guys do it with a rigging needle and braid.

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using proboards

[2 oars & a trash can]

Dec 20, 2014 14:53:57 GMT -5 striperjohn said:

Nope goes through easy. They do studder a bit and keep repeating themselves. Lol. The saltwater guys do it with a rigging needle and braid.

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using proboards

I don't want to throw plastic into the lake every time I put out bait.

[striperjohn]

Then don't.

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using proboards

[BentRod]

Bert gave me some bait holders one day that work in the same manner that striper johns idea does - the bait is never actually hooked with the hook. You can buy them online - not sure what they're called but they come in a big bag - the hook releases from the "hook holder" when you set the hook. Not sure how well the hook releases from the zip tie but may not matter. I've only tried them once but we didn't catch any fish on them so I didn't ever put them on again.

Me personally - I use what works for me and on big bait, stingers work the best - I won't use them on a bait under 8-9" bc it's not necessary. I would guess less than 5% are ever gut hooked - no more than any other way and the reason is because the angler has a lot to do with it - pay attention to your rods and you won't deep hook many fish. I agree fish eat head first, but with huge bait, I hook 60-70% with the stinger in the lip so I don't know how the fish ate it head first. With a regular j hook and no stinger, I miss 3 out of 5. I'm tempted to try a big treble in the nose of bait, bc typically I think I'm lacking enough hook point or the hook turns into the bait on big bait strikes. A treble gives me plenty of hook points and hopefully would reduce turned hooks too - It could be why all our fish are stingered - the nose hook is just missing.

Circles are great hooks and I use them where I feel appropriate, but they don't prevent deep hooking fish in all cases either - if a fish eats a bait before it moves and applies tension to the line, it's gut hooked no matter the hook - this happens a lot bottom fishing. The best way to hook a big bait with a circle is through the back I've found. I'll hook moneymakers in the top of the back on my down rods.