Striper Slot Limits/dates etc

[striperjohn]

Okay so now that the NC guys have been severely blasted for keeping slot size fish, and doing what our SML Guides do on a routine basis(many of them anyway) Let me ask a few questions. First off before you decide to jump on this tread and or me-I kept 4 fish total this past year. People on my boat probably kept 12 total. All under 26 inches. I simply catch and release 99.9% of the time. I fish for the joy of it. My fish cost me about 3 grand a pound.

1. What are the slot limits and implementation dates based on? Scientific data? If so, when, where, how, what and is it based on historical proven data or is it VA DFG best guess on what will help? I don't recall other lakes having this problem that caused our situation, so how do they know the solution? Where did they get their benchmark? For example Kerr is in a similar situation and is being handled entirely different. Santee Cooper in SC has no striper season, period, during the summer months. All based on what?
2. Why put the slot in effect for certain dates and times and not for other dates and times? Does their data show that they need many of the fish in the slot to be caught and kept in order for the proposed solution to work? I mean if the slot isn't in effect all year then their "proposed solution" must include data that says x number of fish from 30-40 inches need to be kept in order for the remainder of the fish in that range to prosper and grow? In controlled largemouth bass studies in ponds and small lakes it has been proven that you absolutely must catch and keep x number of fish over 8 lbs in order for more and bigger fish to grow to 10 lbs etc.
3. Lastly, if in fact their proposed solution does require that x number of fish in the 30-40 inch range be removed from the lake(during the time the slot is not in effect) in order for others to grow larger, what happens if we don't keep any? Does their proposed solution not work? Maybe those guys from NC, and our guides are actually helping our problem not hurting it. As Paul Harvey used to say perhaps this is "the rest of the story?"

[Deleted]

Hmmmm. Good points John. Very good points. Holistic thinking at its finest. I got nothing to add.

I am just hoping for more than 2 hours of sleep tonight so I can throw back a couple of big ones tomorrow and feel freaking great about doing so. And being a good human, I will do my very best to look down upon others who do not share my same beliefs.

Hey lund1, I've fished for stripers from both sides now.... From mongo shad to jigging somehow it's late night illusions I recall, I really don't know stripers at all.

[lund1]

Well said Yam. Try this one......

It's about time for mongo's
Waters 60 degrees
They're puttin' out planers
Singing songs of joy and peace

Oh I've got a damed up river
I can fish away on.

Sorry ....that's enough.....

[Deleted]

That's awesome! Took me a few minutes... To continue..

I don't let my striper die eee eye.

Gotta go.. See some bait on the screen!

[mwardncsu]

StriperJohn - you ask some good questions which deserve some thoughtful discussion & response - and in reality I don't think anyone has all the answers in this manner.... hopefully others can also provide some context & color based on their knowledge, and I'll provide some input based on my knowledge here - though I guess the best person to address the questions below would be our DGIF Biologist,

I am not aware that there is any hard concrete formula or # of fish that can be in the system or need to come out of the system. The variables are just too varied & complex to truly model. From my discussions with DGIF on this, they manage with very limited data, to stated goals from the Management Plan (which has targeted catch rates/hr, annual # of citations, etc, and make gradual changes based on trends from the data they are able to collect - this is where the angler logs, fish heads (for oolith collections), gill netting, etc all play an important role to collect sampling data which hopefully is representative of the overall system.

You and others have been on SML longer than I, and likely remember some more of the history of when it came in, but the info I have been told is that the slot was introduced post-fish kill primary to provide protection to the then very few larger fish - keep them in the system for other to catch and catch again - while the newly stocked fish were growing up through the system over the past 10 or so years. With our slower than average growth rates, we are really now just starting to reach the point at which fish introduced after the kill would be reaching the citation class size.

The reasons that I have been told for the start/stop dates of the slot has to do with the general calendar points in which water temperatures are typically such that release of striper is or is no generally recommended - at least for the mid to larger fish. In other words - the slot starts when the water is typically cool enough that larger fish can be safely released - and ends when the waters become too warm. Calendar dates have to be used to drive regulation & enforcement since we do not have a good mechanism for a real-time opening and closing of "a slot season" if you will like happens in some commercial fisheries. This was also the reason the slot was delayed from an Oct 1 start to a Nov 1 - because in some years the water temp in the 1st week or so of October can still be too warm to safely release larger fish - and folks were having an issue with releasing fish that were dying - and in many ways I can see and agree that such a practice is not a responsible way to manage the fishery. Unfortunately, things change greatly in a month and by Nov 1 it has been safe for several weeks - but that's another topic....

Now - the question of if there could be too many fish overall, or too many of a given size, etc is a good one - one theory is we have too many in the mid-20" range, and this is causing their growth rate to slow. This whole area is one that is fraught with a lack of good data - on what is in the system, what the system can support, and what the right answers are - but the "sliding" of the slot that takes effect on Jan 1, 2015 is an attempt to remove some # of the mid-20" fish from the system to see if perhaps there is some type of gut there. Many folks like yourself, me and others will likely keep doing what we have been doing - releasing fish of all sizes because we just don't eat but so many a year - others will end up harvesting a few more out of that range - and in theory the population in that size bracket will drop some and then over the source of some years we will see if this improves growth rates or not. We had a lot of discussion on this earlier this year - our largest thread on the board I believe And depending on the outcomes, other changes may take be taken.

Given the past history of SML, it seems the general feeling across DGIF and the broader fishing population is that we don't have too many fish in 30"-40" range based on what the lake used to produce - but of course the lake today is not the lake of that day - from perspectives of fishing pressure, boating pressure, nutrient in-flow changes, etc, etc, etc. Thus the focus has been on working to ensure the maximum number of larger fish, looking at growth rates, and making sure we have a good overall general population in the fishery. All while working with very imperfect & limited data..... fun stuff....

The questions you raise are good and valid ones - there certainly is some limit to what a given system can support - and it will be less larger fish than smaller and so forth - and some removal form the system is needed to help the others "move up" - That's what I know on the topic - others can and should provide their input.

[Gator]

Well, all I can say is I don't know any of the answers. But I would rather be a part of the solution and not the problem. Found these tidbits on Google. Pretty good stuff.

www.dgif.virginia.gov/fishing/waterbodies/reports/2012%20Smith%20Mtn.%20Lake%20Bio%20Rpt.pdf

www.smithmountaineagle.com/fishing_and_outdoors/article_a22064db-4df1-5a5c-b811-9b4c4424e196.html

[striperjohn]

Mike/Gator,
You have both confirmed exactly my point. I saw and followed that thread before on the slot limits and all the discussions. Yet not one single solitary fact was presented proving anything. So if we know nothing, how in H can we say someone's wrong by keeping a big fish (30-40 inches)? Perhaps we need to keep a 1000 big fish, or 5000? Or perhaps we need to stop fishing for stripers from 31 May to 30 September? All I'm saying is, if we don't know then how can we act like one guy catching and keeping one big fish has hurt our fishery? I mean read back on the thread it was pretty much a "we all know what you did and it's wrong", but was it or is it?
Okay lets end with a little humor.



i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s531/Striperjohn/funny-pictures-at-the-end-of-the-world-taking-pictures_zps4d65c134.jpg

[baldy]

On Boone Lake in TN the boys there will cut your tires if you have out of state tags on your vehicle. And the guides there, like many of the guides on SML, when they witness someone catch a fish who is trolling with down riggers they'll move their boats into the area and work in concert to block out the trolling boat. Just people being people.

I no longer fish Boone. I do fish SML and I abide by the VA game laws. I've helped many a stranded boater on SML. I've happily shared fishing information to help those new to the lake and the sport of striper fishing. As an artificial bait fisherman, I've shared my lures with others so they could experience the excitement of setting a hook on a striper and enjoy the ensuing battle. A consideration I might add that was never offered me when I was new to the lake twenty plus years ago.

SML is a put and take lake for stripers. All of us contribute to the striper fishery through our tax dollars. It wasn't long ago that the VA Department of Fish and Game was moving to make the creel limit 4 stripers on SML. 100% of the guides stood in solidarity against it and the reasons were quite obvious. It is after all, their livelihood and why increase the work load?

I've had the joy of having a game warden sit and watch while my elderly father and I first start to fish by setting out the lines and then dropping the down riggers only to have him immediately pull along side for an inspection. "Reel them up!" On one particular day the same game warden checked my father and I six times in three hours. When he pulled us for a seventh inspection he saw my father's badge. My dad is a retired VA law enforcement officer. He asked my father, "Why didn't you show me that earlier?"

On other days I've been lucky to be checked only three or four times by two different wardens. I live in NC. Born and raised in Henry County, VA but I make my home in NC. I don't take the actions of the wardens personally nor does it color my attitude. It appears that they're simply telegraphing the sentiments of many of the guides and local residents. It's their lake and I'm an interloper. That's okay. I'm still a happy law abiding camper with no ax to grind. I understand, it's just people being people. I've never been cited for any game violation because I've never done anything to merit a charge.

By the way, up until recently, I owned a large tract of land in Patrick County, VA and the game wardens in that area were made welcome there, regardless of season, deer, turkey or migratory birds. They weren't friends, but they were very respectful and friendly to me, my family members and our non resident hunting guests.