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Post by 2 oars & a trash can on Feb 9, 2014 18:37:21 GMT -5
One question I have is about the idea that we are catching a very large percentage of the fish in the lake. This assertion is based, if I read this right, on the fact that a very large percentage of the tagged fish are being re-caught. The problem may be that this sample (tagged fish) is made up 100% of fish that took bait, or a lure, if I understand right, and were caught. And then they were caught again. How can we know about the percentage of fish that may be a little too smart to eat a hook, or at least much less inclined to be fooled by a hook and line. If they exist, they are being disregarded.
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Post by mwardncsu on Feb 9, 2014 18:46:53 GMT -5
Bigun - not telling anyone to shut up or be quiet - heck, I can just edit you if needed I'm with you - this topic needs lots of folks involvement.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2014 19:04:25 GMT -5
ha!! before superstriper left the old site, he gave the secret to block being edited......it's worked so far. lol
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BentRod
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Post by BentRod on Feb 9, 2014 19:53:40 GMT -5
I don't think this is about growing monster stripers at all. It's about having a healthy population of stripers. I understand the fears, but lets be honest here..7yrs ago there was no slot and there never had been a slot previously either. SML will be fine..this isn't going to ruin the ability of anyone to catch fish. Speaking of the slot, does it seem like a coincidence to anyone else that our fish are bottlenecking at the start of the slot? I don't know if that's the reason, but could it be?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2014 20:01:09 GMT -5
Curious from the past....how old were the fish that were say 35 inches long.....I know that no 2 fish are the same and food variables could make a difference The data I have suggests that before the fish kill, the 2000-2002 fish would average: - Age 4 = 25.6"
- Age 5 = 28.9"
- Age 6 = 34" (Wow! Is this right? A growth spurt between 5 and 6? Interesting!)
- Age 7 = 35.6"
- Age 8 = 35.6"
- Age 9 = 36.8"
Of course this data was collected before the slot limit that was imposed in 2006 and apparently was obtained from gill net and angler data.
Mward, do you know if the 00-02 data was collected year round?
Secondly, did you mention that the gill nets stop working beyond a certain size? The data states that gray cells are Gill Nets and Anglers. Should it say that gray cells are just anglers? And if this is the case, does this mean that 2013 data is just angler data?
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Post by mwardncsu on Feb 9, 2014 20:28:10 GMT -5
Age / Length data comes from 2 sources - gill nets (which is generally the source of the Age 1-3 or 4 fish) and fish heads. My guess is fish-head contribution is skewed to summer-time contributions - though there are probably some that come in year-round from a coupe of the guides that contribute. I know my heads were all summer-fish as that is when I harvest. So, there could be some leve of summer schoolie fish bias to the data as well - typically I'm catching smaller fish in the summer due to downlining alewifes in schools - but that is a size-selector - not an age selector.... I do not know the specifics of the 00 - 02 data set.... Dan does ask for the date the fish was caught along with the length when submitting it - so I assume he would have the data. Just remembered I have a fish-head in the freezer from the summer that I have not gotten to Dan....
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Post by mwardncsu on Feb 9, 2014 20:59:55 GMT -5
Secondly, did you mention that the gill nets stop working beyond a certain size? The data states that gray cells are Gill Nets and Anglers. Should it say that gray cells are just anglers? And if this is the case, does this mean that 2013 data is just angler data? I don't recall the specific size but it is generally the smaller fish - again the year 1-3 or 4 - not that a larger one don't get it's head stuck and not able to get out on occasion. Seem like I remember it being mentioned as a 3" square type net. I know no gill nets were used in Fall of 2013 - and I do not believe any are typically used in the Spring, so I believe all 2013 data on age/size came from angler submitted data.
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Post by Shadslinger on Feb 9, 2014 21:16:51 GMT -5
I cant remember the size of the gill nets either. I have been on a couple gill net samplings with Dan and what usually is caught is thousands of gizzards and white perch, walleye, bass and stripers in the 4-8lb range. I've only personally seen one big striper in the nets the times that I went and I think a fin had it hung in there. Did Dan ever say why they didnt sample this fall on SML, he got leesville in and SML is usually the week before or after. And Spring time they are shocking to get samples instead of netting.
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Post by mwardncsu on Feb 9, 2014 21:24:03 GMT -5
Did Dan ever say why they didnt sample this fall on SML, he got leesville in and SML is usually the week before or after. And Spring time they are shocking to get samples instead of netting. We were told it was due to lack of resource/manpower. Of course the Striper Club usually had folks go help them with it - but it was on DGIF boats. Given the recent increased Leesville stockings I bet he wanted a good view on how the stocking "took" - and if it had not been done Leesville needed to be a priority as well. But we need to make sure DGIF gets the word that we need on-going monitoring at SML.....
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2014 21:53:08 GMT -5
Even if you know your forage levels, you still have no way to know exactly how many stripers are in the system, how many may leave by way of fisherman each year (which varies itself), natural death, etc. Theres no way anyone can attempt to guess how many stripers are actually in SML to even attempt to say we're overpopulated or not. So, I really don't understand your point at all. I remember before my son was born my wife and sister's family and I would plan a 2-4 week vacation each summer. Because I owned the boat, it was my job to pick the water. During our LAST summer trip, I chose Lake Hiwassee because I was able to determine via research that it was a great fishing lake and not overcrowded. Via my research, I came across the site below which discusses something the TVA calls the Sport Fishing Index (SFI). This score is based both on population measures (the size and health of the individual fish, along with the number of fish present) and information on angler use and success. www.tva.com/environment/water/sportfish.htmAnd here are some pictures of the fish I caught along with what was conceived on this LAST family vacation. Thanks SFI! Continuing in this light, here is a simple article that discusses how to measure fish counts on…ready? Lake Superior. www.dnr.state.mn.us/volunteer/mayjun11/hydroacoustics.htmlAnd if this is not enough, here is an article that discusses how to manage and assess fish populations. In this article, a number of issues germane to this thread are discussed. digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1072&context=ncfwrustaffHas the freakin' ice melted yet at SML? I need some tugage! (okay...that sounded bad!) PS My son's name is Afton Fisher May
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Post by HokieChad on Feb 9, 2014 22:27:24 GMT -5
Bigun, you are OK by me. You could answer my question with 3 questions....no problem.
One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the decrease in the white perch population. Did the white perch suffer when shad/other bait wasn't readily available to the striper population 2010/2011?
The lakes that consistently grow bigger fish have several "beefy" bait options. Skipjack, mooneye, and trout are natural baits on some amazing stiper waters in East Tennessee. Could SML sustain those baits? I don't know. If the slot slide doesn't work, I would like there to be some research on introducing another bait source to SML. Threads are too delicate and not beefy enough. I would like to know more about mooneye and skipjack.
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BentRod
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Post by BentRod on Feb 10, 2014 9:33:40 GMT -5
Even if you know your forage levels, you still have no way to know exactly how many stripers are in the system, how many may leave by way of fisherman each year (which varies itself), natural death, etc. Theres no way anyone can attempt to guess how many stripers are actually in SML to even attempt to say we're overpopulated or not. So, I really don't understand your point at all. I remember before my son was born my wife and sister's family and I would plan a 2-4 week vacation each summer. Because I owned the boat, it was my job to pick the water. During our LAST summer trip, I chose Lake Hiwassee because I was able to determine via research that it was a great fishing lake and not overcrowded. Via my research, I came across the site below which discusses something the TVA calls the Sport Fishing Index (SFI). This score is based both on population measures (the size and health of the individual fish, along with the number of fish present) and information on angler use and success. www.tva.com/environment/water/sportfish.htmAnd here are some pictures of the fish I caught along with what was conceived on this LAST family vacation. View AttachmentView AttachmentView AttachmentThanks SFI! Continuing in this light, here is a simple article that discusses how to measure fish counts on…ready? Lake Superior. www.dnr.state.mn.us/volunteer/mayjun11/hydroacoustics.htmlAnd if this is not enough, here is an article that discusses how to manage and assess fish populations. In this article, a number of issues germane to this thread are discussed. digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1072&context=ncfwrustaffHas the freakin' ice melted yet at SML? I need some tugage! (okay...that sounded bad!) PS My son's name is Afton Fisher May Alright I'm putting you in charge of counting/measuring the stripers and bait fish! Report back in 1-2months! I like the name Fisher! My parents were either going to name me Hunter or Tyler..I got Tyler...would have preferred Fisher! I know we've approached Dan before about skipjack and trout and he's kind of discredited it as an option. Trout wouldn't have great survivability I wouldn't think. Skipjack may survive ok but I don't know exactly what they need to thrive. Problem with them is they feed on small baitfish and larvae I think..may be shooting ourselves in the foot with that one.
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Post by 2 oars & a trash can on Feb 10, 2014 9:38:36 GMT -5
One thing that anecdotally at least has increased a lot is fishing pressure. Could at least part of the slowed-growth issue be a result of the stress a fish undergoes being caught and released, even in winter? If that is the case, keeping more 26 inch fish will only result in less 26 inch fish of any body type available.
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Post by grasscutter on Feb 10, 2014 9:54:29 GMT -5
I wunder also if the drought we had 2 years ago could be slowing down the fish some now.....low as the lake was and lack of rain...maybe it stressed the bait and stripers along with less stuff being washed into the lake for the entire food chain....we had a wet winter and year in 13 and 14 looks to be off to a good start.....hard to see immediate results in nature sometimes and maybe these fish will get back to normal and who knows take off this year or next....
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Post by grasscutter on Feb 10, 2014 10:37:56 GMT -5
I'm all for adding crawfish....greenfish really like them.
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