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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2014 22:56:16 GMT -5
So let me get this straight. We have a crap load of food available to feed the masses. Thus we should kill more skinny folk so we will have more fatter folk to throw back?
I don't get it. Are the fish reading magazines that promote skinny living? Thus kill the skinny so the fat will feel better about eating more? I'm so confused!
My common sense tells me that if the food is plentiful and disease is in check...then growth will occur. Any data that suggests otherwise could simply be a result of over generalizing with not enough data.
A few data points collected by an obviously understaffed crew should not lead to a decision especially when dealing with something that may not be broken....YET!
Give it a few more years!
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Post by CorneliaGale on Feb 5, 2014 22:56:19 GMT -5
I've wondered if they using different fish, remember the fish years ago were all pot gutted, now they are leaner than they were then. I wonder why?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2014 23:17:05 GMT -5
To clarify my earlier post...I'm with gator. I'm 100% certain that if I eat a 29 inch fish it will never grow to 40 inches so that I can then face a moral dilemma on whether or not to throw it back or hang it from my wall.
Maybe the answer lies in the food source. From what I understand..the threadfin population was once vibrant. Is it possible that trophies need to eat threadfin? I might not get as fat as I am if all I had to eat was chicken.
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BentRod
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Post by BentRod on Feb 6, 2014 7:09:07 GMT -5
I wouldn't think there's much of a nutrient difference between gizzard shad and threadfin shad. The fatness of the fish isn't the main issue here..it's more related to growth in length. I'm sure the two are related for sure, but our fish have been relatively healthy looking for the past few years..mainly summer and fall when they're lean from the summertime squeeze.
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BentRod
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Post by BentRod on Feb 6, 2014 7:17:34 GMT -5
I've wondered if they using different fish, remember the fish years ago were all pot gutted, now they are leaner than they were then. I wonder why? This topic was brought up at one of our meetings. We're essentially stocking Kerr Lake fish into SML, so could we have poor genetics from the get go?? Dan said this could be a possibility, but he didn't think it was necessary to look into at this point but he was willing to discuss stocking from a different source on alternating years so they could compare growth.
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Post by smythley on Feb 6, 2014 8:04:10 GMT -5
I wasn't around during "the good old days" at SML. Were citations much more common? Tons of big fish? I'd just like to learn more about the history of the fishery.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2014 9:05:22 GMT -5
"the good ole days", >>>>>I would pay good money if I could take mward & bentrod back in time to then. Tyler........nice pic of the glasses. J/K
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Post by mwardncsu on Feb 6, 2014 9:28:25 GMT -5
"the good ole days", >>>>>I would pay good money if I could take mward & bentrod back in time to then. I would too...... heck, I'd pay good money for you to take me to the "today days"
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piper
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Post by piper on Feb 6, 2014 9:35:13 GMT -5
Hey guys..I live about 5 min from the Brookneal hatchery if you feel I can be of any help. I visited a couple of years ago and talked to the manager. In a nutshell they shock parts of the river and collect certain/specific sizes to breed. He did mention that he trades with other fisheries throughout the us..mainly walleye, musky, and channel catfish I think he said
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Post by mwardncsu on Feb 6, 2014 9:53:48 GMT -5
Piper - yep - when they have more striper fry than needed they trade with other hatcheries for other species...... The issue is going to be working with the hatchery folks to go and shock up stock from elsewhere and bring them to Brookneal to grow-out - hauling fry in the #s we stock at SML/Leesville from somewhere remote would likely result in very poor survivability - and the cost would make it prohibitive.
The Striper Club and its Preservation Committee stay in regular contact with Dan as well as DGIF management to ensure our concerns in these areas are heard and work collaboratively to help ensure that we all have the best possible striper fishery - managing it so that it is a great fishery while in balance with the other fisheries on the lakes as well..... At this time the Striper Club is really the only "organized voice" to DGIF so one way to help is to be a member - even if you don't desire to participate in meetings, tourneys or social events, being a member shows support of the goals of the organization which is 1st and foremost to "promote, protect and preserve the quality of Striped Bass in SML & Leesville" and the larger the membership base the louder our collective voice.... Not trying to sound like a commercial for the Striper Club but it is the fact that there is no other active body/organization directly pushing these concerns and that takes work/effort from many.
That said, this forum has also been a value resource in these efforts - Dan Wilson checks things out here from time to time to get a feel of what anglers are saying/seeing/thinking as well.... and it has been a good communication tool to get issues out to those that care.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2014 12:12:50 GMT -5
I'm still confused. A war makes sense if the food is scarce. But how does killing fish between 26-30 inches allow other fish to grow when there is more than enough food for all??
Please help educate me.
Because what I see here is an invitation for more people to come kill the fish. For example, I asked a friend of mine if he wanted to fish with me this winter. He said no way because he wanted to be able to eat our catch and he knew almost everything I was catching was above 26 inches. BTW, this friend fishes Lake Anna and stays there because of the 4 fish limit over 20 inch rule. In other words, it isn't worth the drive to SML.
I say..let's keep it that way!
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BentRod
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Post by BentRod on Feb 6, 2014 12:25:10 GMT -5
It's pretty simple. We don't know what the cause/causes of the lack of growth is/are. There's no proof that there is plenty of bait..it would appear that way but we don't know for sure. We don't know if forage or lack thereof is causing the lack of growth..its just a guess. It appears that they are stunting at 26-28" now, which coincidently is the start of our slot, so the thought is if allow some more in that range to be kept throughout the year (it's not going to destroy the fishery..releasing fish has really caught on more than we realize), we can see if that affects the growth.
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Post by mwardncsu on Feb 6, 2014 13:06:37 GMT -5
Stripedyam - your concern is valid..... and I'm the last want that wants to send any signals that its time to open the meat-market. This is a point that was discussed in multiple sets of conversations with different groups with Dan - there was overwhelming concern about increasing the creel limit to 4 as it would send exactly that message.
But the data collected from oolith collections to get age against length, seem to show that our fish are getting right to the slot with fairly typical/normal growth rates and then those rates screech to a halt. Why is the mystery currently....
- too many fish of similar size competing for bait of a specific target size? - coepods stunting growth rate? Some of the other data does not support this. - is it just a genetic issue - have we inbred the fish since we continue to use brood-stock that comes from an inland source to where they are growing to a smaller size?
We cannot materially change the bait - we can study it more than has been done and get a better picture of what we really have - but we can't really change the quantity as that is limited by the nutrient in-flow - and in general lake residents want "clean", weedless water - which means less nutrients coming in from Roanoke. Dan had data from some years back that shows a cliff in bait density when the water quality coming into SML was "cleaned up" some years back. We are not going to get more nutrients into the lake.
We can't change the coepods - if they are taxing the respiration & thus metabolism of our fish, it is what it is - they are here to stay
So, you work the the variables you can control. One of those is stocking rates. Reducing stocking rates is pretty much a taboo topic for some reason. Partly perhaps because it is viewed that once you drop it, you'll never get it raised - at least I feel that's a lot of the perception. The thought is to take some of the fish in the low to mid 20" range out of the population and see if growth rate improves - while still protecting the limited larger fish and giving new protection to the true large fish. Stocking reductions does not do this as it just keep pumping fish into the system to grow through the system.
So, hence the reasoning for the proposals - and it will be monitored and tracked and if needed - adjusted back / different as changes happen or not.....
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BentRod
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Post by BentRod on Feb 6, 2014 13:39:29 GMT -5
It will do it eventually, but I think you're looking at a much longer time frame. If you can get rid of some of the stunted fish (they're not growing anyways!) more quickly, then maybe you can free up those 25" and under fish to continue growing at normal rates. Maybe not..we don't know.
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Post by CorneliaGale on Feb 6, 2014 19:25:52 GMT -5
To answer the question before the die off it took a forty pound fish to turn heads. When the record got to about 30 pounds seems like someone was catching a little larger fish every couple of weeks up to the die off, current record is out of Leesville, seem to remember someone had a reward out for a bigger one to be caught out of SML. Back it the heyday people were bringing in fish to weight at the store in Stewartsville, the old HopIn took a forty pound fish to even get a second look when they brought them to weight for a citation. A lot of the guys that fished for stripers back then had a wall full of citations. A 39 pound fish used to hang in Stewartsville fire house that was the state record for a couple of weeks, don't know if its still there or not. I really wonder if we don't need to mix some breeder stock in from somewhere else to see if we can get those big old pot bellied fish back that eat and put on weight. Plus years ago a lot of big fish were caught on bluegills and carp, no one was catching baitfish with nets.
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